Episode 19: “How Much Is Too Much?” — Pacing in a CI Classroom
Teaching with Comprehensible Input and pacing a language classroom feels impossible when CI says go slow, schools say move faster, and your brain just wants answers.
Take the CI Proficiency Quiz to see where you are in your CI journey at https://imim.us/ciquiz.
In this episode, Scott talks with Tamara Galvan about real-world CI pacing, knowing when enough is enough, handling repetition without fear, and surviving pacing pressure without losing your sanity.
Need support beyond the podcast? The CI Survival Kit gives you classroom-ready tools that actually work—check it out at https://imim.us/kit.
#comprehensibleinput, #cipacing, #languageteachers, #worldlanguageteaching, #teacherpodcast, #heritagelearners, #proficiencybasedlearning, #teacherlife, #comprehendthis
Hosts:
- Scott Benedict - https://www.instagram.com/immediateimmersion
- Tamara Galvan
Resources & Links:
- Assessment Academy https://imim.us/academy
- CI Survival Kit https://imim.us/kit
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Transcript
And welcome everybody. How is everybody
Speaker:doing on the second month
Speaker:of 2026? Can you believe it?
Speaker:So today we're talking pacing. Real
Speaker:pacing in the CI classroom. Not Pinterest
Speaker:pacing. Not my district says I should be
Speaker:on chapter 6 pacing.
Speaker:Actual acquisition pacing. I'm joined by
Speaker:Tamara Calvin, who's been teaching with
Speaker:CI for over 20 years.
Speaker:Grew up in France, is a heritage learner
Speaker:herself, raises 4 heritage learners, and
Speaker:somehow still has receipts for every
Speaker:pacing conversation
Speaker:we've all had in our heads.
Speaker:If you've ever wondered whether you're
Speaker:going too slow, too fast, or just
Speaker:spiraling quietly during prep, this
Speaker:episode is for you. And
Speaker:we'll be back in just a moment.
Speaker:Pop quiz. Are your assessments aligned
Speaker:with what you're actually teaching? No?
Speaker:Cool. Let's fix that.
Speaker:The Assessment Academy is 10 pre-recorded
Speaker:lessons that help you ditch the scantrons
Speaker:and actually assess what matters. Like
Speaker:proficiency, performance, and whether
Speaker:your students are
Speaker:still breathing by Friday.
Speaker:Watch on your time, as many times as you
Speaker:want, for a whole year. And no, there's
Speaker:not a single lesson about bubble sheets
Speaker:or grading 72 essays
Speaker:at 11pm. You're welcome.
Speaker:Head over to mm.us slash academy and
Speaker:start assessing like
Speaker:you actually mean it.
Speaker:And we're back. How are we
Speaker:doing this morning, Tamara?
Speaker:Fine. Thank you. How are you? I am doing
Speaker:awesome. Thank you for asking. So we are
Speaker:here to talk today about pacing in the CI
Speaker:classroom. And I know you also have
Speaker:experience with heritage speakers. So I'd
Speaker:like to talk about
Speaker:that a little bit as well.
Speaker:So let everybody know a little bit about
Speaker:you, other than what I
Speaker:already talked about in the intro.
Speaker:So I'm American and my parents moved to
Speaker:France when I was 11. So I started
Speaker:learning French in the classroom and had
Speaker:to take English as a heritage learner.
Speaker:I've been teaching English as a foreign
Speaker:language since I was 17 about.
Speaker:Started out with adult learners. And so
Speaker:I've been teaching for almost 30 years
Speaker:now, English and French. So and I fell
Speaker:into CI because my children have dyslexia
Speaker:and were struggling.
Speaker:And I needed solutions. And I started
Speaker:storytelling without knowing what
Speaker:storytelling was until the day I
Speaker:discovered there was a name
Speaker:for the CI classroom. So yeah.
Speaker:Awesome, awesome, awesome. What was it
Speaker:like growing up in France and moving over
Speaker:to 11 that seemed like a
Speaker:big, big giant culture change?
Speaker:It was, it was a major culture shock for
Speaker:two reasons. One was the French culture
Speaker:is very different from American culture
Speaker:and I didn't speak French at all. And
Speaker:two, I was raised in a very strict
Speaker:environment and going to French public
Speaker:school was another culture shock.
Speaker:And that was from two major culture
Speaker:shocks and the pace. And back then in the
Speaker:80s, internet didn't exist. We had no way
Speaker:of communicating with family and friends.
Speaker:So that was quite a
Speaker:shock on several levels.
Speaker:I'm sure. And so many of our kids on the
Speaker:reverse feel that or, you know, in my
Speaker:school, we have 43 different languages
Speaker:represented at our school from English
Speaker:language learners. And some of them came
Speaker:over by choice and others.
Speaker:I had a wonderful student last semester
Speaker:because we, my school changes semester.
Speaker:So we get different
Speaker:students every semester.
Speaker:And she had come from Afghanistan, but
Speaker:she was a refugee from Afghanistan. Her
Speaker:other family had moved here earlier
Speaker:before they had to leave. And so there
Speaker:was much more of an easier transition for
Speaker:them. It was a planned transition where
Speaker:for her, it was a refugee
Speaker:and she had to learn English.
Speaker:And it was just a really hard transition
Speaker:for her being a very traditional Muslim
Speaker:coming from, you know, Afghanistan, a war
Speaker:torn Afghanistan. It was just a very
Speaker:different thing. So it's kind of nice to
Speaker:hear a perspective of someone who's gone
Speaker:through it, but in the reverse.
Speaker:So that's interesting concept.
Speaker:And I have hindsight now, which so I
Speaker:teach in a English school in France that
Speaker:is governed by the English Embassy. And
Speaker:most of my students
Speaker:are not here by choice.
Speaker:And they're about the ages I was when I
Speaker:arrived. And it's been interesting
Speaker:guiding them through it and the anger and
Speaker:deception or uncomfortable periods that
Speaker:they're going through and be able to say,
Speaker:you know, I totally
Speaker:understand where you are today.
Speaker:But you know what, there are things to be
Speaker:thankful for. And it will all work out
Speaker:for something good in your life. And I
Speaker:explained to them like I hated this and I
Speaker:hated this and this was
Speaker:difficult, but I really love this.
Speaker:And now today, it's there are tools that
Speaker:I use in my everyday work or that have
Speaker:enhanced my life or given the experiences
Speaker:that I wouldn't have had
Speaker:if that hadn't happened.
Speaker:And some some of the students have dire
Speaker:situations. We have a lot of Ukrainian
Speaker:refugees and things like that. But yeah,
Speaker:the students, a lot of the students when
Speaker:they first arrived, they
Speaker:don't even want to learn French.
Speaker:They're so they're so angry about moved.
Speaker:So, you know, and you just brought back a
Speaker:memory for me when I was going into high
Speaker:school because we're approximately the
Speaker:same age. I've been
Speaker:teaching for 25 years.
Speaker:I grew up in the 80s. And I remember you
Speaker:said you couldn't make contact with
Speaker:family back then. I remember when I first
Speaker:went to Europe when I graduated from high
Speaker:school in 1989, I went to Spain and
Speaker:making a phone call back
Speaker:home was, it was an issue.
Speaker:I had to call the operator. You had to
Speaker:say, I needed to make a call. She goes,
Speaker:well, I'll call you back when there's a
Speaker:line and modern people do not know that
Speaker:there actually were telephone lines that
Speaker:went underneath the
Speaker:ocean all the way across.
Speaker:And there was only so many of them. She
Speaker:call you back in about a half hour, 45
Speaker:minutes. I got you a line and then you
Speaker:can make your phone call. It was not like
Speaker:you can just pick up your cell phone and
Speaker:dial right off the bat.
Speaker:You know, that you can do now or WhatsApp
Speaker:or do any of those kinds of other that
Speaker:are instant. Like we're talking here in
Speaker:France. I'm in California and we're able
Speaker:to converse instantly,
Speaker:which is just mind blowing.
Speaker:But when I grew up in the 80s, I had a
Speaker:student. Well, a student was with me. He
Speaker:was an exchange student, but not by
Speaker:choice. He was here in the United States
Speaker:from Colombia and he was here
Speaker:as a result of the drug trade.
Speaker:His there's some kind of he had he had
Speaker:escaped the country for some kind of
Speaker:reason. I don't remember the whole story
Speaker:back then, but in the 80s, it was a real
Speaker:big deal. And he didn't want to be here.
Speaker:He didn't want to learn English. He
Speaker:actually refused to learn English.
Speaker:And I don't even know how they paired him
Speaker:up with me, but they paired him up with
Speaker:me. I was in Spanish one. I was a 10th
Speaker:grade student in Spanish one. And for the
Speaker:first half of his day, he was in extended
Speaker:English classes, but refused to learn.
Speaker:And then for the second half of the day,
Speaker:he followed my schedule for the last
Speaker:three periods of the day. He followed my
Speaker:schedule and I was supposed to help them
Speaker:through. I did not speak
Speaker:Spanish. I was in level one.
Speaker:But I'm the only one made the effort. So
Speaker:I carried the little mini dictionary with
Speaker:me and had to try to explain and you
Speaker:know, find words. And I attribute a lot
Speaker:of my Spanish to that experience because
Speaker:I had no choice. He refused to
Speaker:communicate in English.
Speaker:And I remember when I finally, you know,
Speaker:we know the verb gustard, which is like
Speaker:Plazir and French, you know, it's the
Speaker:backwards verb and stuff like that. And
Speaker:we didn't learn that yet. So I'm
Speaker:conjugating that as a regular verb.
Speaker:And so when I finally got it right and we
Speaker:learned that step, he's like, oh, you got
Speaker:it right finally, you know, and then he
Speaker:got a girlfriend and it was the most
Speaker:awkward thing in the world because she
Speaker:didn't speak Spanish and
Speaker:he didn't speak English.
Speaker:And I remember a note that said take
Speaker:here, oh, mucho. And in, you know, my
Speaker:basic Spanish at that time, I didn't also
Speaker:realize that Kiai roman love. I just
Speaker:meant credit as want. And so thought the
Speaker:sexual kind. And I'm
Speaker:like, that's oh my gosh.
Speaker:And I had to be the third wheel on their
Speaker:dates because I was the only one to be
Speaker:able to communicate between the two of
Speaker:them. So he would say something and I
Speaker:would say it to her and then back and
Speaker:forth. And their song, their little song
Speaker:that they had was La Isla Bonita by
Speaker:Madonna because it was half in Spanish
Speaker:and half in English.
Speaker:But it was just so funny and it was so
Speaker:awkward, all the different things I was
Speaker:oh my gosh, I remember that. But yeah, he
Speaker:refused to speak English and was just
Speaker:counting down the days that he could go
Speaker:back to his country.
Speaker:And his name was Carlos Alfonso Rueda
Speaker:Pena. And he always would abbreviate
Speaker:because such a long name, abbreviated
Speaker:Carp, C-A-R-P, you don't want to do that
Speaker:because that's an ugly fish in English.
Speaker:And you'd know that if you
Speaker:paid attention in English class.
Speaker:Yes, but it takes time that whole, that
Speaker:whole need to learn the language and feel
Speaker:comfortable. It takes time.
Speaker:Yeah, it does. But it's great to have a
Speaker:different perspective because you get the
Speaker:kid's perspective and it's really hard to
Speaker:understand it if you've never experienced
Speaker:it yourself. So you're in that unique,
Speaker:unique position of being able to do that.
Speaker:So that's really, really great.
Speaker:And when they realize that I know what
Speaker:I'm talking about, it
Speaker:creates connection as well.
Speaker:Absolutely. And that is the most
Speaker:important. No matter what we teach,
Speaker:whether we teach languages or any other
Speaker:thing, I think that's the most important
Speaker:part of teaching is making that
Speaker:connection with kids.
Speaker:And if you don't have that connection
Speaker:with them, you know, they say if kids
Speaker:don't think you care, then they are not
Speaker:going to care to learn whatever you're
Speaker:going to teach them. And so you've got to
Speaker:really, really make that connection.
Speaker:I think that's the most important thing
Speaker:above and beyond your curriculum. That
Speaker:connection is so very important. And if
Speaker:you don't have that connection, I don't
Speaker:think you can
Speaker:successfully teach them anything.
Speaker:Even if it was something they really
Speaker:wanted to learn, if they don't have that
Speaker:connection, they're going to butt heads
Speaker:with you the whole time. So I think
Speaker:that's really, really key.
Speaker:So let's get back to our topic today of
Speaker:pacing in a CI classroom. I know, I don't
Speaker:know about your experience in France.
Speaker:I've never taught in another country. But
Speaker:in America, at least in the in the
Speaker:language classes that
Speaker:teach from a textbook,
Speaker:whenever you see a fellow world language
Speaker:teacher, one of the first things they
Speaker:always ask is, what chapter are you on?
Speaker:Where are you in the book? That's always
Speaker:because everything is okay. If we're all
Speaker:on the same page on the same day,
Speaker:teaching the same kids, because the
Speaker:administrators always say,
Speaker:what if they change classes?
Speaker:They have to be they don't want to be too
Speaker:far ahead or too far behind. And I'm
Speaker:like, how often does that really happen?
Speaker:If you want a robot to teach, you know,
Speaker:we've got AI now you can do the robot and
Speaker:have them teach you. But that's not what
Speaker:we're about. But that's always a
Speaker:conversation in all the schools I worked
Speaker:at that had textbooks behind them.
Speaker:You see a teacher in a copy room or at
Speaker:lunch or at the mailboxes, they're always
Speaker:say, what chapter are you on? What
Speaker:chapter are you on? We got to get to this
Speaker:chapter by this point. And it's always
Speaker:funny to me that that's, we're dictated
Speaker:by the calendar and we're dictated by the
Speaker:textbook. But where do the kids come into
Speaker:play? So what's your aspect on that?
Speaker:So, so it varies from school to school
Speaker:one entirely. My perspective is kind of,
Speaker:it doesn't not everyone agrees with my
Speaker:perspective. But there's the textbook in
Speaker:the whole idea is that the students
Speaker:always comprehend what's going on and
Speaker:what we're saying, and that it goes slow
Speaker:enough for them to understand what's going on.
Speaker:And that I teach them how they can learn
Speaker:on their own. So if they do change
Speaker:classes, or if they do change schools,
Speaker:and they're not right up to where that
Speaker:lesson is, they know how to
Speaker:figure it out on their own.
Speaker:So I actually go a lot slower at the
Speaker:beginning of the year. And I paste it a
Speaker:lot slower because I explained to them
Speaker:what's happening and what they need to
Speaker:progress. And I'm basically teaching for
Speaker:the end of the year, and what's going to
Speaker:happen at the end of the year.
Speaker:And, and usually the next year, the
Speaker:following year, they have a colleague.
Speaker:And so they need to be ready for that
Speaker:colleague. But not all of my colleagues
Speaker:teach CI. So the major one year, so the
Speaker:first year that I really started teaching
Speaker:CI, I realized that the students were
Speaker:getting attached to me and how I taught.
Speaker:And I suddenly realized that if I wanted
Speaker:them to become independent and to know
Speaker:how to acquire language on their own, and
Speaker:to be able to catch up with a class if
Speaker:they got into another level, or to slow
Speaker:down if they needed to, I needed to teach
Speaker:them what they knew, what
Speaker:they needed to know to progress.
Speaker:So that's become a huge, that was a huge
Speaker:turning point for me. And now it's non
Speaker:negotiable, even with my admins.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah. I find it's a lot about educating
Speaker:both admin and other teachers as well.
Speaker:Because, and I'm going to give you two
Speaker:different aspects that I have thought
Speaker:about outside of the world language, but
Speaker:it doesn't matter if you covered
Speaker:everything from the textbook, if you've
Speaker:left all these kids behind along the way.
Speaker:And I remember a math teacher and a high
Speaker:school math teacher teaching ninth grade
Speaker:algebra. And at this school, we got kids
Speaker:from all different feeder schools,
Speaker:because we were a, not a charter school,
Speaker:but a career in tech academy.
Speaker:And so kids could apply to come to the
Speaker:school. So they're coming from all
Speaker:different. So it wasn't like you had a
Speaker:regular feeder school from middle school
Speaker:that could say, I know where this teacher
Speaker:got them to and I can just
Speaker:start from there and move on.
Speaker:So he had kids from all over the places.
Speaker:And he said, if I started where my
Speaker:curriculum was supposed to start, I would
Speaker:have lost more than half
Speaker:my kids in by week three.
Speaker:And there, it's just going to go downhill
Speaker:from there. He goes, you got to start
Speaker:where the kids are at, you've got to
Speaker:start there and work with what you have,
Speaker:regardless of what the curriculum says or
Speaker:your time map says or whatever.
Speaker:It doesn't make sense if you're just
Speaker:going to lose all the kids all along the
Speaker:way. And I read something else in a book
Speaker:years ago, and it really stuck with me.
Speaker:They had done an experiment with a
Speaker:physics class. And what they did is they
Speaker:taught it two different ways. One, they
Speaker:use the textbook and did every chapter
Speaker:and every question in the textbook and
Speaker:went through all of that.
Speaker:And then they took the final at the end
Speaker:of the year. The other one looked at the
Speaker:textbook and said, what are the four most
Speaker:important concepts of
Speaker:physics that they needed to learn?
Speaker:And instead of just going narrow, shallow
Speaker:and narrow, so just going like teaching
Speaker:this much, we're going to go wide and
Speaker:deep. So we're going to go
Speaker:wide and we're going to go deep.
Speaker:So he took those four concepts and each
Speaker:of the quarters taught one of those
Speaker:concepts really, really deep. And at the
Speaker:end, they took the same final.
Speaker:And the first set of kids were exposed to
Speaker:every question on that final. They'd seen
Speaker:some form of that, but they did not do
Speaker:well on the final. Whereas the second
Speaker:group were not exposed to every single
Speaker:question that was on that final.
Speaker:But they were taught to think in how to
Speaker:apply these four major concepts to the
Speaker:world of physics and they exceedingly did
Speaker:extremely well on the final.
Speaker:And so what it tells me is covering going
Speaker:narrow and shallow. You just you're just
Speaker:covering the material. You're not
Speaker:teaching them how to actually use it.
Speaker:You're covering so much material that
Speaker:they can't possibly
Speaker:realistically remember it all.
Speaker:But if you can go really deep with what
Speaker:you're teaching them, it goes a long way.
Speaker:You can remember and it
Speaker:bring it back to world language.
Speaker:I remember I almost dropped out of
Speaker:Spanish in high school because that first
Speaker:10 weeks of school, all we did was rehash
Speaker:what we did in level one. I'm like, I was
Speaker:in that class. I remember what we did.
Speaker:I don't need to spend all this time. It
Speaker:was a waste of my time. And a lot of
Speaker:teachers spend the first four, six weeks
Speaker:reviewing because the kids
Speaker:lost all that stuff over summer.
Speaker:Why did they lose it? Because you taught
Speaker:them way too much. It couldn't possibly
Speaker:keep it all in their head. But if we
Speaker:focus and go really deep with what we
Speaker:teach, kind of like Dr. Terry Waltz's
Speaker:Super 7 or Mike Peato's Sweet 16, if
Speaker:you're just focusing on that,
Speaker:then the pacing will come out just right
Speaker:and your kids will be able to do a lot
Speaker:more than what they could have done if
Speaker:you covered all 10 chapters of the
Speaker:textbook that you're supposed to cover.
Speaker:And I think that's
Speaker:really an important thing.
Speaker:So I don't know if you know this about
Speaker:me, but I've worked for several editing
Speaker:companies to publish textbooks.
Speaker:And so there's usually about six to 10
Speaker:chapters depending on the textbook and
Speaker:depending on the company. And I'm
Speaker:currently writing a textbook for Ashet.
Speaker:And so I know that each of the themes
Speaker:that are in the textbook cover the Sweet
Speaker:16, the 7, like all of the important
Speaker:stuff is there and you
Speaker:need to concentrate on it.
Speaker:So if you only pick four of those
Speaker:subjects, you'll get that if you do it
Speaker:deep and wide. And those themes and those
Speaker:chapters are in there, not so that you
Speaker:follow them completely through, which
Speaker:most people think that you should.
Speaker:It's to provide alternatives so that you
Speaker:can choose which themes and which
Speaker:subjects you think your students will be
Speaker:interested in and what
Speaker:you'll be interested in.
Speaker:So if you do it in a deep and wide way,
Speaker:you're going to be covering that. And
Speaker:each of those chapters and themes
Speaker:technically is supposed to cover what we
Speaker:call a progressive spiral.
Speaker:So you're going to be going over and over
Speaker:the different items. But if you do it in
Speaker:a way that's meaningful for your students
Speaker:and you explain to them what it means and
Speaker:you watch their eyes and you watch if
Speaker:they're understanding
Speaker:and you watch if they're interested and
Speaker:invested. An invested student is going to
Speaker:progress so much faster than a student
Speaker:that's bored out of his mind and not
Speaker:listening or a student that is drowning
Speaker:in an incomprehensible foreign language.
Speaker:So, so, yeah, even having written
Speaker:textbooks, I would highly suggest not
Speaker:just following the textbook. And
Speaker:actually, the major problem with that
Speaker:would be sometimes you have colleagues
Speaker:that you have to keep in sync with.
Speaker:And so I would talk with them at the
Speaker:beginning of the year and ask them where
Speaker:they are. And sometimes I would cheat,
Speaker:quote, unquote, on a chapter so that my
Speaker:students knew what was going on.
Speaker:But because they weren't interested in
Speaker:that particular subject or it wasn't
Speaker:connecting with them. And so I would find
Speaker:another way to get to it.
Speaker:Yeah. And I agree with that and connect.
Speaker:And that's really big here in America is
Speaker:that we have to be on the same page at
Speaker:the same time on the same week and
Speaker:amongst all the same
Speaker:levels, which I find just I don't.
Speaker:It's just not human. It's just not human.
Speaker:We're all different. And that's what
Speaker:makes us great teachers is that we bring
Speaker:all something different to the table.
Speaker:But I'm not for we should be on the same
Speaker:page on the same day on the same week.
Speaker:I'm not for that. But I am for we all
Speaker:need to be at the same spot or have
Speaker:taught the same material by X date.
Speaker:So let's say we're going to have a common
Speaker:midterm or a common final. We should
Speaker:agree upon that from the beginning of the
Speaker:year where we should be and cover that
Speaker:material. However, we want to cover it.
Speaker:I know like in level two, first chapter
Speaker:of most Spanish textbooks are every
Speaker:single reflexive verb that they could
Speaker:possibly think of to
Speaker:put in a chapter is there.
Speaker:But I find that overwhelming for kids and
Speaker:then they oversimplify in words that were
Speaker:never reflexive before.
Speaker:Verbs have now become reflexive because
Speaker:we've emphasized it so hard in this
Speaker:chapter. So they're saying, you know,
Speaker:they're saying, you know, I
Speaker:am myself. You are yourself.
Speaker:You know, they're just putting them in
Speaker:words that they're just throwing in the
Speaker:reflexive pronouns everywhere where I
Speaker:find, OK, I've got to teach reflexive
Speaker:pronouns and we're going to be assessed
Speaker:on them at the midterm.
Speaker:But what if I just sprinkle a few of them
Speaker:in over the time instead of bombarding
Speaker:them with every single reflexive
Speaker:reflexive verb I possibly can all in one
Speaker:chapter themselves to cover in two weeks
Speaker:or every single fruit and vegetable
Speaker:because we're on the food chapter.
Speaker:Let's be honest, you know, it's just not
Speaker:going to go over. But to sprinkle those
Speaker:through, I think
Speaker:that's much more important.
Speaker:And in the school I teach at right now,
Speaker:they don't get that because we always
Speaker:write the midterm and final the last week
Speaker:before we have to give it because we base
Speaker:it on where we all got at that moment
Speaker:instead of planning it in the beginning
Speaker:and pacing ourselves
Speaker:to get to that point.
Speaker:So we're always scrambling and we teach
Speaker:the same subjects semester after semester
Speaker:after semester and every time the final
Speaker:is different because I didn't get that
Speaker:far this time or I
Speaker:didn't really work on this.
Speaker:I'm like, you're now rewriting the final
Speaker:to what you taught rather than, you know,
Speaker:having a plan and working towards that
Speaker:plan that we can all agree upon.
Speaker:So they're a little bit backwards on that
Speaker:backwards planning. They don't do the
Speaker:backwards planning. They're the where are
Speaker:we now planning, you know, and then write
Speaker:the final for that for
Speaker:that particular point.
Speaker:But I believe, like you said, we've got
Speaker:to make those connections and we've got
Speaker:to go at the pace of our kids and like
Speaker:we're on the semester system.
Speaker:So I have new kids every semester and I
Speaker:have a general plan of what I'm going to
Speaker:teach, but I have to make I can't even
Speaker:have templates, you know, for what I'm
Speaker:what I'm supposed to teach this week.
Speaker:I adjusted every single time because my
Speaker:kids are different. These kids got it
Speaker:faster than last semester's kids or
Speaker:they're getting it slower.
Speaker:And then the connection part is really
Speaker:big to me where like I my readings are
Speaker:written about my students.
Speaker:I pick students I write about little
Speaker:jokes that came up in class or things
Speaker:that they've said or
Speaker:things I know about them.
Speaker:And I have different kids every semester.
Speaker:And so I've got to adapt those things. So
Speaker:for me, I got what governs me and I
Speaker:learned this from Blaine Ray as well that
Speaker:you teach the kids in front of you.
Speaker:And you go at their pace. Yes, I've got
Speaker:my curriculum map in the back of my head,
Speaker:my pacing guide in the back of my head
Speaker:where I'm supposed to get to.
Speaker:But that doesn't matter if I got through
Speaker:it all and then nobody's
Speaker:on the train at the end.
Speaker:So I get to the final stop and nobody's
Speaker:there with me anymore because they all
Speaker:got left behind somewhere beforehand.
Speaker:I want to get as many of those people at
Speaker:that final destination on
Speaker:the train as I possibly can.
Speaker:And sometimes I got to slow down through
Speaker:some cities and I can speed
Speaker:up through some other cities.
Speaker:But you've got to be at the pace of those
Speaker:kids. I really it's I think
Speaker:it's the most important thing.
Speaker:And a lot of the time in America, not
Speaker:just in the world language, that that is
Speaker:a problem that they like math.
Speaker:There is so much they have to teach in
Speaker:math and math is a hard
Speaker:concept for so many of our kids.
Speaker:And I even think they tried teaching some
Speaker:concepts in math earlier to early.
Speaker:Like for me, I was not an algebra kid and
Speaker:it was difficult for
Speaker:me. I understand it now.
Speaker:But teaching it to a 13 year old, that's
Speaker:a lot. It's a lot on them.
Speaker:It's abstract. It's not concrete. You
Speaker:can't apply it to anything.
Speaker:So I think and we try to teach too much.
Speaker:And so our kids don't
Speaker:learn as much because of that.
Speaker:And I think teaching
Speaker:less is always more. Yes.
Speaker:And two, I think what I really like
Speaker:Stephen Krashen used to always say,
Speaker:you're an expert in your domain.
Speaker:And there are very few people that are
Speaker:interested in your world language or in
Speaker:your mathematics like you
Speaker:are as an expert teacher.
Speaker:And the thing about that is that's the
Speaker:bad part is that we tend to swamp our
Speaker:students with information
Speaker:that they're not ready for.
Speaker:But if we as experts know where we need
Speaker:to take them and we have backwards design
Speaker:in place and we know the different steps
Speaker:and elements and we know how it works.
Speaker:We're in front of the students. We can
Speaker:observe them. We can see their eyes. We
Speaker:can see their attitude.
Speaker:We can make those deep connections that
Speaker:are going to make what we're teaching
Speaker:them profound and relatable to them.
Speaker:And so we'll get them to where they need
Speaker:to be if we know where we're taking them.
Speaker:And we can make it fun. And we can use
Speaker:the textbook, but you can sprinkle the
Speaker:textbook or and you can dive
Speaker:deep into it with your students.
Speaker:The main thing is seeing them invested in
Speaker:happy to learn and understanding why
Speaker:they're learning a
Speaker:certain way and how to reuse it.
Speaker:And I've actually had several of my
Speaker:students teach themselves Korean, just
Speaker:copying what I've taught them in English
Speaker:lessons or in French lessons.
Speaker:And so they've taught themselves another
Speaker:language. They've gone home and said, oh,
Speaker:this is what I need to
Speaker:acquire this language.
Speaker:I'm going to study it on my own. And so I
Speaker:have four students who are currently
Speaker:studying Korean and English in the
Speaker:university in Bordeaux, just simply
Speaker:because going slow and teaching them how
Speaker:to learn means that you're going to meet
Speaker:those goals and exceed
Speaker:those goals actually.
Speaker:And admin at first doesn't believe you,
Speaker:but with time, I've realized that the
Speaker:longer you stay in a certain school or a
Speaker:certain setting, they're like, oh, we'll
Speaker:let her do what she wants
Speaker:because they're doing fine.
Speaker:But it takes a while to get them on
Speaker:board, but they see it and they're
Speaker:surprised because it actually usually
Speaker:goes above and beyond what expectations
Speaker:were because the students take it away.
Speaker:Yeah. So it's true. And and Koreans on an
Speaker:easy language to acquire in any regard
Speaker:and to be able to do that
Speaker:on their own is amazing.
Speaker:And I agree with you. A lot of
Speaker:administrators are looking at the process
Speaker:rather than the results. And the whole
Speaker:goal of looking at data is so that you
Speaker:get the results that you're looking for.
Speaker:So if you're getting those results, then
Speaker:the process doesn't matter. You know,
Speaker:Blaine, I like what I've always liked
Speaker:about Blaine. He says, this is what I do.
Speaker:I do TPRS. That's my thing.
Speaker:But that's only because it's the best way
Speaker:that I currently know how to get kids to
Speaker:acquire language. If something comes
Speaker:along that is better and gets kids to
Speaker:acquire language faster, I am dropping
Speaker:TPRS and going right to that.
Speaker:So for him, again, it's not the process.
Speaker:It's not the technique. It's not the the
Speaker:filter, which with your teaching, it's
Speaker:getting the results. The results are what
Speaker:matter. And it doesn't
Speaker:matter how you get there.
Speaker:And I tell it the same thing with the
Speaker:kids that, you know, all I want you to
Speaker:get to is this destination. Let's say
Speaker:we're all going to go and meet in Vegas
Speaker:and we're all coming from different
Speaker:places in the country.
Speaker:Doesn't matter how we got there, whether
Speaker:we drove, we flow, flown, we took a
Speaker:train, we took a bus. We all got there.
Speaker:So it doesn't matter how we got there,
Speaker:but we got there. But
Speaker:the results are there.
Speaker:And for me, in my experience, I can't
Speaker:speak for everybody and I can't speak for
Speaker:every school and every student. But in my
Speaker:experience, the textbook doesn't get kids
Speaker:to the same destination that CI does.
Speaker:And I can speak from personal experience,
Speaker:not as a teacher, but as a student,
Speaker:because I took French, German and Spanish
Speaker:in high school and college.
Speaker:And when I look back at where I got my,
Speaker:and I'm not, I wouldn't say fluent, but
Speaker:where I got my fluidity in the speaking,
Speaker:it's not based off the textbook.
Speaker:When I go back to Spanish, it was Carlos
Speaker:Alfonso Rueda Pena. That's who I got my
Speaker:that from, because I was forced to do
Speaker:that. And my French is really bad. It's
Speaker:the worst of my language.
Speaker:I didn't take it as long.
Speaker:It wasn't the French class of memorizing
Speaker:all those conversations or memorizing the
Speaker:dialogues. I hated memorizing those
Speaker:dialogues because I'd go, like I
Speaker:memorized the hotel dialogue, I'd go to a
Speaker:French hotel or a German hotel, and I'd
Speaker:go and do my little dialogue.
Speaker:And they didn't answer back the way they
Speaker:were supposed to. So then I was frozen
Speaker:not knowing how to answer back to what
Speaker:they were saying. And my experience was
Speaker:it was so funny. It was the
Speaker:first time I went to Ajin.
Speaker:That's where, by the way, people don't
Speaker:know that's a workshop, the Ajin workshop
Speaker:is like extremely great conference to go
Speaker:to in the summertime at the end of July
Speaker:in Ajin, France, which is
Speaker:just outside of Toulouse.
Speaker:So here's my first time going there. And
Speaker:I had not spoken any French since like,
Speaker:well, no, I take it back. I had not been
Speaker:in school since 1992 in French. And then
Speaker:I had been taking some online
Speaker:class with Karen Rowan online.
Speaker:With Daniel and Sabrina in French. But
Speaker:that was my limit of my French. I get to
Speaker:the Toulouse airport and I go to the the
Speaker:the help booth. And she's got these pins
Speaker:says I speak German, I speak French, I
Speaker:speak English, I speak Spanish.
Speaker:So I go to her in my broken, horrible
Speaker:French. And I said, I do not speak
Speaker:French. I can speak German, I can speak
Speaker:English, and I can speak Spanish.
Speaker:Can you please tell me how to get to the
Speaker:bus that takes me to the train station so
Speaker:I can go to Ajin? And what does she do?
Speaker:She tells me in French.
Speaker:And I'm like, I just said that was the
Speaker:one language that I did not know. I
Speaker:understood what she was saying, barely,
Speaker:because I was forced to
Speaker:understand what she was saying.
Speaker:So I figured that out and I go to the bus
Speaker:and I had to go to the computer and the
Speaker:computer is only in French and I have to
Speaker:buy my ticket. So I bought what I thought
Speaker:was the ticket, the right ticket. I take
Speaker:it to the bus driver's
Speaker:like, no, it's the wrong ticket.
Speaker:Which ticket is it? He goes, it's this
Speaker:ticket. I go back. I can't find that
Speaker:ticket. I buy another ticket. I go up
Speaker:there. Is this the right ticket? He goes,
Speaker:no, it's not the right ticket.
Speaker:I say, can you come and show me which
Speaker:one? He goes, I can't leave the bus. So I
Speaker:try a third one and I finally get the
Speaker:right one. I mean, I'm guessing it's all
Speaker:in French. The whole machine to buy the
Speaker:ticket is there's no human to talk to.
Speaker:It's just a machine.
Speaker:And I finally get the right ticket and I
Speaker:go to the bus and he drops me off at the
Speaker:train station in Toulouse to go to ASEAN.
Speaker:And I was so thankful because in that
Speaker:one, the ticket machine go in multiple
Speaker:languages. So I can switch it to the
Speaker:right language so I
Speaker:can get the right ticket.
Speaker:But I learned my lesson. I do not take
Speaker:the bus from Toulouse to the train
Speaker:station anymore. I do Uber. It was just
Speaker:easier to do the Uber from the Toulouse
Speaker:airport. But I just remember that and
Speaker:being, you know, that it's nothing that I
Speaker:got out of a textbook taught
Speaker:me to handle that situation.
Speaker:But teaching with CI does.
Speaker:Yeah. And that is so common. So common to
Speaker:have someone taught from a textbook. So
Speaker:often Europeans tell me, oh, I'm a
Speaker:beginner and they've had 15 years of
Speaker:English or 15 years of another language
Speaker:or Spanish. And they're like, no, I'm a
Speaker:beginner. I can't speak because they've
Speaker:always used a textbook.
Speaker:So I took German and Romanian in school
Speaker:and in German, we had a textbook and we
Speaker:had to learn the dialogues by heart. And
Speaker:the only way that I actually started
Speaker:speaking German was when I began private
Speaker:classes and discussing with the actual
Speaker:Swiss German lady in German.
Speaker:And then when I went to Germany for two
Speaker:months and stayed with a family and had
Speaker:to speak German. And then when I went to
Speaker:do my oral for the baccalaureate, he's
Speaker:like, you're German is amazing. But in
Speaker:class, in class, I was just I was I was
Speaker:failing German in class.
Speaker:But when I went to the oral for the
Speaker:baccalaureate, the teacher said, you're
Speaker:fluent, not fluent, fluent, but you speak
Speaker:well, you understand what I'm saying. We
Speaker:can carry on a discussion.
Speaker:He's like, you're the first student I've
Speaker:seen today who can carry conversation. So
Speaker:I got a really good grade for the
Speaker:baccalaureate, but I was failing the
Speaker:textbook, the
Speaker:textbook part I couldn't do.
Speaker:And I always remember that. And if I see
Speaker:a student starting to clock out, it's
Speaker:really not worth the textbooks to see a
Speaker:student clock out or not
Speaker:understand what's going on.
Speaker:And we can dive in deeper and play around
Speaker:with a word and manipulate it and move it
Speaker:around in sentences and play with it. And
Speaker:I mean, I teach drama, too.
Speaker:So I love to get my students moving and
Speaker:manipulating the sentences and playing
Speaker:around with different things. And also
Speaker:with the slow progression, you can come
Speaker:back to different terms.
Speaker:You're not stuck in a in a system. So I
Speaker:kind of like to play with the textbook
Speaker:and like pull things out. And I don't
Speaker:really follow a textbook, which isn't
Speaker:very wise of me to say, seeing as I'm
Speaker:writing a textbook right now.
Speaker:But but when I design a textbook, do as I
Speaker:say, not as I do. Right.
Speaker:But but I design a textbook to cover
Speaker:different needs of the
Speaker:students so that they they learn.
Speaker:Yeah, I do try to design a textbook in
Speaker:the CIA fashion of sorts. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker:I think it's and it's really true.
Speaker:I know that those dialogues with memorize
Speaker:those dialogues and they taught you one
Speaker:way to say something. And then because
Speaker:someone rephrased it and used a different
Speaker:way of saying the exact same thing, you
Speaker:didn't weren't taught that.
Speaker:So you don't know what it was said,
Speaker:because textbooks are you have to know
Speaker:the word for word every word. And if they
Speaker:didn't teach it, you don't know it. And
Speaker:if they did teach it,
Speaker:you're supposed to know it.
Speaker:And I remember in college, my French, my
Speaker:French, it was Spanish, my Spanish
Speaker:professor broke a couple of rules of
Speaker:etiquette right off the bat, because you
Speaker:girls are different.
Speaker:But guys are very straightforward. It
Speaker:comes going to the bathroom that, you
Speaker:know, we don't talk, you start a
Speaker:conversation, you ends at the door and
Speaker:you pick it up when you get back out.
Speaker:You don't have a conversation in there
Speaker:and you don't stand next to someone in
Speaker:the stall. There's more than one stall.
Speaker:I know French bathroom etiquette is very
Speaker:different from American etiquette, but
Speaker:this is American male etiquette. And my
Speaker:Spanish teacher comes in, stands in the
Speaker:stall right next to me and then starts
Speaker:having a conversation in
Speaker:another language in Spanish with me.
Speaker:And I am like freaking out like I am just
Speaker:trying to go to the bathroom here. And he
Speaker:said it like how are you in a different
Speaker:way? I never heard this way doing it.
Speaker:So it was a very colloquial Spanish way
Speaker:of saying it versus Latin America. I
Speaker:never heard it before. And I like I
Speaker:wasn't taught that. So I
Speaker:didn't know how to respond to it.
Speaker:And so one of my things I'm really big on
Speaker:in my assessments and stuff in class, my
Speaker:practices is I deliberately put words and
Speaker:phrases that my kids don't know, that I
Speaker:know my kids don't know in there.
Speaker:But they can guess from context clues and
Speaker:no answer to a quiz or a question is
Speaker:relying upon understanding that phrase.
Speaker:And my other teachers would say we can't
Speaker:put that in there
Speaker:because we didn't teach it.
Speaker:I'm like I want to put it in there
Speaker:specifically because we didn't teach it
Speaker:because I want my kids to feel a little
Speaker:bit uncomfortable of not understanding
Speaker:everything that's being said.
Speaker:But they understand the main ideas that
Speaker:they can have that conversation because
Speaker:in real life as a non-native speaker,
Speaker:there's always going to be someone who
Speaker:knows more vocabulary and more
Speaker:expressions than you do and
Speaker:are going to use them with you.
Speaker:And there's no way that you're going to
Speaker:be able to catch up with a native
Speaker:speaker. It's impossible to catch up with
Speaker:a native speaker.
Speaker:You're always years behind.
Speaker:So I want them instead of having that
Speaker:shock when they're in real life to have
Speaker:that shock in classroom where we can work
Speaker:through it. So I deliberately put things
Speaker:in there that I know they don't know but
Speaker:can guess from context clues to actually
Speaker:teach them how to deal with that
Speaker:uncomfortability because textbooks I
Speaker:don't think do that.
Speaker:They only assess exactly what they teach
Speaker:and that may be a practice in other
Speaker:disciplines but I think that's not it's
Speaker:doing a disservice to our kids.
Speaker:Like when they say to make CI 100%
Speaker:comprehensible, I'm not for that 100%. I
Speaker:like to have a little bit of gray area to
Speaker:make them think a little bit to use the
Speaker:context clues and the vocab that they do
Speaker:have to make good generalizations.
Speaker:And in class when we're working one on
Speaker:one, you know, as a class, they're always
Speaker:welcome to ask that. But then they feel
Speaker:what that's like and then can overcome
Speaker:that anxiety. So they're not having that
Speaker:anxiety when they really need not to have
Speaker:it in real life when they're at that
Speaker:hotel desk and they say something they
Speaker:don't really completely understand that
Speaker:they don't just deer in the headlights
Speaker:are shocked that they can use the
Speaker:language they do have to get asked
Speaker:clarifying questions and get that
Speaker:information back out of them.
Speaker:And actually I teach in fairness always
Speaker:in foreign classes from my own
Speaker:experience, but I always like to make
Speaker:them feel this kind of insecurity so that
Speaker:they become more and more secure because
Speaker:someone who's going to progress if they
Speaker:know how to in fear meeting depending on
Speaker:the context, they're going to progress.
Speaker:So I, I'm not going to make it many
Speaker:friends here but I don't actually teach
Speaker:with CI textbooks. I do not take teach
Speaker:with graded readers. I teach with readers
Speaker:that my students are interested in. So
Speaker:for example, in second year English, I
Speaker:will be teaching Narnia, for example, I
Speaker:will be teaching the line
Speaker:the witch in the wardrobe.
Speaker:What does that do is I'm teaching my
Speaker:students how to infer and for meeting
Speaker:meaning sorry in the words that they
Speaker:don't know, and they catch on really fast
Speaker:and they love it at
Speaker:first they're a bit scared.
Speaker:But even when they're watching a movie
Speaker:with subtitles in English or subtitles in
Speaker:French, depending on what language I'm
Speaker:teaching, they catch on really quickly on
Speaker:reading the situation and
Speaker:figuring out what was meant.
Speaker:So I do it that way and then for
Speaker:production, because obviously when
Speaker:they're in high school they have to
Speaker:produce something I do fluency writing.
Speaker:And so I'll put an image up on the board
Speaker:and I'll have them write a paragraph. And
Speaker:at first they're like, I don't know this
Speaker:word and I don't know this word and I
Speaker:need the dictionary and I'm like, nope,
Speaker:you need to use synonyms you need to use
Speaker:a certain kind of sentence.
Speaker:And I'm not really scared, but when they
Speaker:look at their notebooks, they have a
Speaker:specific notebook for fluency writing,
Speaker:when they look at where they started and
Speaker:where they finished at the end of the
Speaker:year, the difference is huge.
Speaker:And they really can only attribute that
Speaker:to themselves and then using the language
Speaker:and going out in a branch actually and
Speaker:saying, hey, you know, I'm going to try
Speaker:this because I don't know
Speaker:what how to say it another way.
Speaker:And that's how you do it in real life.
Speaker:And I think that's really influenced by
Speaker:the fact that I had to learn a language
Speaker:on the ground basically and say, hey, you
Speaker:know, that's how I learned French.
Speaker:It was no other way to do it.
Speaker:So I think that's so important. I
Speaker:remember my first day in French school,
Speaker:the girls were all talking to me and they
Speaker:quickly realized that I
Speaker:didn't understand a word of French.
Speaker:And back in the day, nobody spoke
Speaker:English. And so they they showed me this
Speaker:building in the back of the of the school
Speaker:and they kept pointing.
Speaker:I knew they wanted something, but I
Speaker:didn't understand what they were saying.
Speaker:So they dragged me there, opened the door
Speaker:and there was a toilet.
Speaker:One of the girls pulled out in her
Speaker:underwear and went to the bathroom in
Speaker:front of me because they wanted to ask me
Speaker:if I needed to go to the bathroom.
Speaker:But I didn't understand a word. So I was
Speaker:so scared because
Speaker:very rude. I was raised.
Speaker:My mother is from Mennonite background.
Speaker:So I was raised in a very secluded.
Speaker:I was like in complete shock, like, ah,
Speaker:so I quickly learned to understand what
Speaker:was going on because I really didn't want
Speaker:her to do that again.
Speaker:And so when I talk about double trauma of
Speaker:moving to a foreign country, that's what
Speaker:I mean. It was like,
Speaker:well, but I learned so much.
Speaker:And also it's helped me even today when I
Speaker:work in international meetings and I have
Speaker:to interpret and I can
Speaker:read a room a lot quicker.
Speaker:It's taught me to read a room. It's
Speaker:taught me to read who I'm talking with.
Speaker:And when I'm teaching online, I like all
Speaker:of my students to have their screens on
Speaker:just because I love teaching to the eyes
Speaker:and the face and what's going on like
Speaker:body language is so important.
Speaker:Yeah. And I think if they learn that they
Speaker:can go to the country and they can pick
Speaker:it up so much faster or they can speak
Speaker:with someone whose language
Speaker:it is and they'll pick it up.
Speaker:But teaching those basics, those
Speaker:fundamental ways of learning a language
Speaker:really allows them to go so much further
Speaker:because when once they leave my
Speaker:classroom, they can pick up a book in a
Speaker:foreign language and
Speaker:try to figure it out.
Speaker:They can watch a series on TV and try to
Speaker:figure it out. They know that if they put
Speaker:the subtitles in the language that
Speaker:they're targeting, that
Speaker:they can figure it out.
Speaker:They know what they need to do. And I
Speaker:teach them how to use a dictionary too.
Speaker:So many kids don't know how to use even
Speaker:an online dictionary.
Speaker:But when you teach them those tools,
Speaker:you're making them independent. And I had
Speaker:one of my inspectors say, yeah, but then
Speaker:you'll have different
Speaker:levels in your class.
Speaker:And I'm like, yeah, but the level of
Speaker:language that we're teaching, especially
Speaker:if it's English, is still not high enough
Speaker:for what they need for the next year.
Speaker:Because I have some students when they
Speaker:leave high school, they're going to have
Speaker:classes entirely in English, depending on
Speaker:what they've chosen.
Speaker:Or if they go overseas, they'll have
Speaker:classes in English. They need to be able
Speaker:to master a level of English that isn't
Speaker:even required for the exam.
Speaker:So I need to equip them to
Speaker:be able to learn on their own.
Speaker:It says phrase like you if you give
Speaker:somebody a fish, you learn how to eat for
Speaker:a day. But if you give if you teach them
Speaker:how to fish, then they can feed
Speaker:themselves for a lifetime.
Speaker:It's it really does apply. It's the same
Speaker:kind of thing. And you were talking about
Speaker:that, you know, the inference and even
Speaker:English teachers here in America said our
Speaker:American kids cannot infer.
Speaker:They can't do that. And so I've always
Speaker:put in there when I make questions, I
Speaker:want always 30 percent of my questions to
Speaker:be inference questions to kind of get
Speaker:them to practice that.
Speaker:So they're ready for whatever comes their
Speaker:way. But I also teach and I learned this
Speaker:from my Easter Loca Annabelle.
Speaker:Yeah. And she teaches them
Speaker:circumlocution. So I have posters on my
Speaker:wall. I have one for a
Speaker:person, place, animal or idea.
Speaker:So they can start with that. And I had a
Speaker:kid who's really good at it. I had him
Speaker:last year for level one. I got him this
Speaker:semester for level two.
Speaker:And he's he really took to that that
Speaker:circumlocution. He goes, I can never
Speaker:remember the name for it and I can never
Speaker:know how to pronounce
Speaker:it. But I know what it is.
Speaker:And so he's like, I couldn't remember the
Speaker:word for city. So he knew the word up. My
Speaker:poster of the board says there's a place.
Speaker:So he put a sun lugar con muchas casas.
Speaker:It's a place with a lot of houses. That's
Speaker:perfect. Because he didn't know his word
Speaker:for buildings either. So he used what he
Speaker:had. And I'm like, that was perfect on
Speaker:the AP exam. You'd get
Speaker:extra points for that.
Speaker:And it was like when I took the AP exam
Speaker:in Spanish way back when we never learned
Speaker:the word whale. Never. It never came up.
Speaker:But that was the entire test in speaking
Speaker:and writing was about whales.
Speaker:I am like, really? And I know it's not
Speaker:biologically correct. But I said I wrote
Speaker:a really big fish because I knew what to
Speaker:say. Fish and I know what to say big. And
Speaker:I know they're not fish. I
Speaker:know that they're mammals.
Speaker:But I got my points in AP because I
Speaker:didn't just put in the word whale like a
Speaker:lot of kids did because they didn't know
Speaker:what to do. I circumlocated. And so it's
Speaker:a really good skill to be able to do that
Speaker:and to ask clarifying questions.
Speaker:And I go to the kids. Let's go. You go to
Speaker:the grocery store. You go to a movie
Speaker:theater or wherever and you're
Speaker:interacting with someone whose English is
Speaker:not their first language.
Speaker:And you don't understand how they said
Speaker:something. Not because you don't know
Speaker:English but because they phrased it kind
Speaker:of weird or whatever. We don't stop and
Speaker:correct them. Number one. That's rude.
Speaker:But us teachers feel like it's our right
Speaker:to do that which is shocking. That
Speaker:effective filter goes way up. But at the
Speaker:same time what do we do? And it's the
Speaker:same thing you'll do in a foreign country
Speaker:is you ask a clarifying
Speaker:question like, I'm sorry.
Speaker:I'm sorry. I didn't get that. You didn't
Speaker:say I'm sorry you said it wrong and now I
Speaker:didn't understand because you said it
Speaker:wrong. You put it back on yourself. I'm
Speaker:sorry. I didn't get that. And then they
Speaker:rephrase it and now you get it. It's the
Speaker:same thing in a language. If you can use
Speaker:those types of things. If you have you've
Speaker:already gone through that anxiety in the
Speaker:classroom. That little bit of anxiety of
Speaker:not always understanding what's going on.
Speaker:But being able to ask clarifying
Speaker:questions to get the ideas to come across
Speaker:because as Van Patten says it's always a
Speaker:negotiation of meaning. It's not always
Speaker:an equals. You said something and I 100%
Speaker:understood it. There's a lot of gray area
Speaker:even when you're fluent and you're always
Speaker:negotiating meaning back and forth.
Speaker:And so that's really an important skill
Speaker:for us to teach our kids to be able to to
Speaker:adapt to the live situation because I
Speaker:always tell kids they go. I want to know
Speaker:what's on the speaking test for tomorrow.
Speaker:I'm like I don't know. I'm going to tell
Speaker:you tomorrow. So I can't even study for
Speaker:that because we don't get up in the
Speaker:morning and rehearse everything that
Speaker:we're possibly could say with every
Speaker:person we interact with. We just have to
Speaker:interact live with them.
Speaker:And that's the kind of skill that I want
Speaker:to teach my kids to be able to do and
Speaker:where pacing doesn't really hit that is
Speaker:because if we're just getting through the
Speaker:vocabulary in the grammar just to get
Speaker:through the vocabulary in grammar. We're
Speaker:really not teaching the kids to live in
Speaker:that language which is
Speaker:what our real goal is.
Speaker:And living in the language is a key
Speaker:element because there are so many
Speaker:cultural differences like for example if
Speaker:I translate bread a French person is
Speaker:envisioning a baguette. A French
Speaker:baguette. And you don't make the same
Speaker:type of sandwich with a French baguette
Speaker:that you do with our American bread. It
Speaker:just doesn't work the same way.
Speaker:And there are so many elements and
Speaker:cultural differences that are not
Speaker:translatable. And I actually try to
Speaker:translate the least possible. I use a lot
Speaker:of drawings. I use a lot of images. I use
Speaker:a lot of gestures. But I've learned that
Speaker:they need to be able to decipher too when
Speaker:culturally there's something that they
Speaker:haven't actually got.
Speaker:You know I didn't get that sort of thing
Speaker:because then it allows them to like
Speaker:question themselves and try to relate in
Speaker:a different way that's deeper and more
Speaker:profound than what we would do in a
Speaker:general textbook setting.
Speaker:I think that cultural element is so
Speaker:important. And I think that's influenced
Speaker:also by the fact that I've taught in
Speaker:France for a while. In France you're not
Speaker:allowed to teach a foreign language
Speaker:without adding cultural elements in it.
Speaker:And I think that there are often
Speaker:misunderstandings because of cultural
Speaker:differences because we don't mean the
Speaker:same things with the same words. I think
Speaker:in the pulse are not exact translations.
Speaker:A French person when they say "je pense"
Speaker:there's doubt in there. They're not sure
Speaker:of themselves. They're guessing. When you
Speaker:say "I think I want to do this" as an
Speaker:American or an English speaker, you
Speaker:usually kind of know that that's exactly
Speaker:what you want to do.
Speaker:But a French person is in complete doubt.
Speaker:So how would you know that unless you're
Speaker:like reading the other person and
Speaker:thinking and getting that connection. And
Speaker:I think we can provide that as teachers,
Speaker:especially in world
Speaker:languages to like show them that.
Speaker:And so many times I've had admins who
Speaker:would question it and say "why are you
Speaker:doing it that way?" And I don't
Speaker:understand. And I would explain to them
Speaker:with just like putting them in a
Speaker:situation with a foreign
Speaker:language for just a few seconds.
Speaker:And they'd go "oh yeah I never thought
Speaker:about it that way." And the parents too
Speaker:because the parents were like "why are my
Speaker:students not learning all of the
Speaker:irregular verbs for example?"
Speaker:I want my child to learn all of the
Speaker:irregular verbs this year. And you're
Speaker:like "oh do you know your regular verbs?"
Speaker:And they're like "yeah." And so they
Speaker:start reciting them. And then I go "and
Speaker:can you make a sentence with this one?"
Speaker:And they're like "uh no I can't."
Speaker:And I'm like "okay so it doesn't really
Speaker:work. You can recite it but you don't
Speaker:know how to use it. And if I make a
Speaker:sentence will you even recognize it?"
Speaker:And so I explain to them that's not how
Speaker:we're going to learn it with your kids.
Speaker:We're going to learn it a different way.
Speaker:And then I show them and they're like "oh
Speaker:that makes sense. Why
Speaker:don't we learn it that way?"
Speaker:And so I've come up with over the years
Speaker:with little tidbits to like tie in admin
Speaker:and colleagues and even one year I had a
Speaker:colleague in the middle of my first day
Speaker:of class who just opened the door and
Speaker:said "what did you do
Speaker:with these kids last year?"
Speaker:And I was like "oh I did something
Speaker:wrong." And she's like "no it's amazing
Speaker:they've progressed so much in one year. I
Speaker:didn't think it was possible." And then
Speaker:she started teaching with novels as well
Speaker:because she realized "hey it works."
Speaker:And that's another reason why I kind of
Speaker:sway away from CI novels just simply
Speaker:because I really think it's super
Speaker:important to have that cultural element
Speaker:that somebody that really knows the
Speaker:culture element is writing the book.
Speaker:And I guess it's super important for me
Speaker:because I feel like language opens the
Speaker:minds. It allows your students to travel.
Speaker:It allows them to actually see that there
Speaker:are different
Speaker:perspectives on similar situations.
Speaker:And I find that so important for us as
Speaker:individuals, as humans to be able
Speaker:to...and I mean it goes above learning a
Speaker:language maybe but I think that's the
Speaker:essence of learning a language.
Speaker:You know you're right and you brought up
Speaker:a third point. I'm writing my notes so I
Speaker:don't forget my little three
Speaker:points I want to talk about.
Speaker:First of all let's go to the CI Now, the
Speaker:one you've just recently mentioned. That
Speaker:is what you talked about. People actually
Speaker:knowing the culture.
Speaker:That has been a movement in the last few
Speaker:years here in the CI novels that they are
Speaker:written by people who
Speaker:actually know the culture.
Speaker:So we have a lot more authors now because
Speaker:I know when we started when I started 25
Speaker:years ago all we had was Blaine Ray's
Speaker:"Pobriana" and a few
Speaker:other novels that he wrote.
Speaker:And they tried to put in culture but it
Speaker:was from always a whitewashed
Speaker:perspective. Forgive my wording. I don't
Speaker:know how other way to say it.
Speaker:But it's always from the American
Speaker:perspective of looking upon this culture
Speaker:instead of coming
Speaker:from within that culture.
Speaker:And then we have a lot of other authors
Speaker:now who are writing Spanish novels that
Speaker:are from the culture that they know.
Speaker:And then they can talk about one of the
Speaker:best ones I love and I love to read it my
Speaker:level two even though the author herself
Speaker:I know her, Adebiyana, she wrote it.
Speaker:And she's like I don't teach that to
Speaker:level three. I'm like I love this novel.
Speaker:I don't teach level three right now. I'm
Speaker:teaching this novel.
Speaker:It's the one where it says I got lost in
Speaker:Medellin and it's about a Canadian who's
Speaker:on an exchange program with his friends.
Speaker:The whole school, his class went to
Speaker:Columbia and he gets lost and
Speaker:he has to find his way back.
Speaker:And so he meets up with this local guy
Speaker:and says I'll take you back to your hotel
Speaker:because he originally says
Speaker:here's how to go on the bus.
Speaker:But it was so complicated he's like I
Speaker:can't do this because it's like four
Speaker:changes or something like that.
Speaker:He says well I'll take you but I've got
Speaker:to run some errands first.
Speaker:And so through all of these errands
Speaker:you're learning some aspect of Colombian
Speaker:culture from an
Speaker:authentic person's kind of way.
Speaker:And I love that about the book. That's
Speaker:why I love the book. And it teaches some
Speaker:Colombian slang in there and I love the
Speaker:book so I'm going to teach it.
Speaker:So that's the movement we're going for.
Speaker:We've got the same idea from you that you
Speaker:have just different
Speaker:ways of getting there.
Speaker:But we want more books by people who
Speaker:actually know what they're talking about
Speaker:and not from an American lens that a lot
Speaker:of them were always written.
Speaker:And no offense to those writers. It's
Speaker:just we want something
Speaker:more authentic. You know.
Speaker:The other thing you said called.
Speaker:And I love and I love those new authentic
Speaker:books. I'm actually trying to learn
Speaker:Spanish so I've actually worked on some
Speaker:of Andrea and his books but the I think
Speaker:to the students you know you said deeper
Speaker:and wider connection with the students.
Speaker:And I think that cultural element draws
Speaker:them in because that's real life. I mean
Speaker:who hasn't talked to a friend and said I
Speaker:don't understand what you mean or a
Speaker:teacher is like whoa.
Speaker:That was even when we're speaking the
Speaker:same language. I know my banker when I
Speaker:talk with my banker. We
Speaker:don't always understand.
Speaker:And we're speaking the same language.
Speaker:But but I think that that draws the
Speaker:students in too because I think as human
Speaker:beings where people have connection and
Speaker:and that draws them in.
Speaker:They find it interesting and it so many
Speaker:students are like I started getting
Speaker:interested in this language because of
Speaker:this element in this element and it's
Speaker:often a cultural element that intrigues
Speaker:them or they're interested in.
Speaker:That's different from their own culture
Speaker:or it's linked to their past because
Speaker:their parents have different origins of
Speaker:various. I mean I mean that's why I took German.
Speaker:My grandpa spoke German and his parents
Speaker:were German and I was like I want to take
Speaker:German grandpa speaks German.
Speaker:But yeah those connections that connect
Speaker:and another aspect you talked about was
Speaker:the culture and there's not always a
Speaker:direct correlation between an American
Speaker:textbooks they put in culture but it's usually associated with a holiday or food.
Speaker:Those are the two big things and those
Speaker:are the least cultural things I can think
Speaker:of. Those are just easy to teach. One of
Speaker:the things I love to teach about culture
Speaker:about real thing is and it's everybody's
Speaker:going to laugh but it's bathroom culture
Speaker:because it is so different.
Speaker:I told them when I went to Spain in 1989
Speaker:the first time I was on a tour and we did
Speaker:not stay in American hotels. The tour
Speaker:group booked all these local hotels. So
Speaker:for me learning how to use the bathroom
Speaker:was a new concept because every hotel did it differently.
Speaker:Sometimes you pulled a chain to flush the
Speaker:toilet. Sometimes you stepped on a
Speaker:puddle. Sometimes they had a small button
Speaker:and a big button. Sometimes you know all
Speaker:these different things. Sometimes you
Speaker:faced the wall. Sometimes you faced away
Speaker:from the wall. Then there was this little
Speaker:thing that looked like a drinking fountain next to the toilet but it was not a drinking fountain.
Speaker:All of these things that you just don't
Speaker:realize. I have a whole unit on the
Speaker:differences of using the bathroom. In
Speaker:Spain you have to pay to use the
Speaker:bathroom. They have franchises of these
Speaker:companies that are in airports and train
Speaker:stations but the bathrooms are immaculate.
Speaker:We talked about the Lulu money because it
Speaker:was called the Lulu back then from the
Speaker:British and you used to have a little
Speaker:dish and you're supposed to put change in
Speaker:there to pay for the person who cleaned
Speaker:the bathroom after you.
Speaker:It was just a really strange because that
Speaker:doesn't happen here in America. You don't
Speaker:have to pay to go to the bathroom and all
Speaker:that kind of stuff. So it was a really
Speaker:thing. Then I explained my experience
Speaker:with the French bathrooms because I am
Speaker:not French. I didn't study French very
Speaker:much. I went to Agin the first time and I went to the French bathroom.
Speaker:I first looked at the school that we go
Speaker:to for the conference. There's this giant
Speaker:window at the front of the boys bathroom
Speaker:that you can see in and see everybody's
Speaker:business. It's a boy girl school. It's
Speaker:not an only boy school.
Speaker:You see all the urinals. There's no
Speaker:partitions between the urinals. If you're
Speaker:passing by in class and you happen to
Speaker:look in that window you can see all the
Speaker:boys doing their business. But it's not a
Speaker:big deal in French culture.
Speaker:I was in Charles de Gaulle airport. You
Speaker:walk past the girls bathroom. The door is
Speaker:wide open. You can see right on in there
Speaker:and you have to go walk past the girls
Speaker:bathroom and get to the boys bathroom.
Speaker:In America, bathrooms have the idea of
Speaker:shame. You have to hide from it. It's
Speaker:very gender specific and it's tied to
Speaker:sexual things. I don't know why you tied
Speaker:sexual things with the
Speaker:bathroom but Americans do.
Speaker:It's just a whole different concept. I
Speaker:could speak a whole week
Speaker:on just bathroom culture.
Speaker:Oh yes. We can actually talk about that
Speaker:because in France you can actually go to
Speaker:the bathroom anywhere if you need to.
Speaker:Anywhere behind a bush or not behind a
Speaker:bush. It happens daily. In the US you
Speaker:can't go just anywhere.
Speaker:It really shocks them. In France it's not
Speaker:a problem. I remember when we first moved
Speaker:to France when we went to the swimming
Speaker:pool, girls and boys would
Speaker:change in the same changing room.
Speaker:That's changed now because now that there
Speaker:are more television shows from different
Speaker:countries and things like that, the sense
Speaker:of shame has set in.
Speaker:You don't do that anymore.
Speaker:The teachers would change in the same
Speaker:room as we were changed. Everybody was
Speaker:together. Everybody changed.
Speaker:So much has changed since then. It's
Speaker:incredible. I remember being shocked
Speaker:because I was raised in a very religious,
Speaker:very crude environment.
Speaker:That was shocking for me. I would come
Speaker:with my swimsuit already on so I didn't
Speaker:have to change. I would get dressed with
Speaker:a wet swimsuit because I wasn't changing
Speaker:in front of anybody else.
Speaker:But the culture was so different. It was
Speaker:shocking. I remember too because I was
Speaker:working in a library in Maryland.
Speaker:This family went to visit France and
Speaker:Europe. So they went to France and Italy.
Speaker:When she got back she was like, "Oh, it
Speaker:was lovely. The food was delicious."
Speaker:But there were so many naked statues. How
Speaker:unbelievably rude to have naked statues.
Speaker:I love art. Part of my role in the US
Speaker:when I was working for the editing
Speaker:company in the US, I was the major editor
Speaker:for French 1 and 2, is I had to edit out
Speaker:the parts of French culture that would
Speaker:shock American learners.
Speaker:They asked me to edit out those parts so
Speaker:that they wouldn't be shocked. I remember
Speaker:some of the authors were like, "Why are
Speaker:we editing this out?"
Speaker:They were like, "Because people who are
Speaker:using this program will feel
Speaker:uncomfortable with this cultural element.
Speaker:So we have to remove it."
Speaker:You learn a lot when
Speaker:you're going between cultures.
Speaker:I think those are more important. My
Speaker:whole thing about teaching culture is
Speaker:that kids don't embarrass themselves when
Speaker:they go to another country.
Speaker:You talk about the bathroom thing. You
Speaker:can be put on the sexual registry for
Speaker:public urination out
Speaker:here in the United States.
Speaker:It's funny because you just reminded me,
Speaker:I had friends from the Netherlands. When
Speaker:I was in my 20s, this never happens. I
Speaker:don't know. It was just really weird.
Speaker:It was a Saturday afternoon and I get a
Speaker:knock at the door. These are my friends
Speaker:from the Netherlands. Who does that?
Speaker:Usually they plan, "I'm coming out. I
Speaker:want to come see you." No,
Speaker:no. They just knock on my door.
Speaker:It's in the evening and I'm in
Speaker:California. We Californians
Speaker:know that the ocean is cold.
Speaker:I know they have Baywatch and they show
Speaker:them in swimsuits and they jump in the
Speaker:water every day of the
Speaker:year. But the ocean gets cold.
Speaker:They want to go to the ocean. We go to
Speaker:Laguna Beach, which was about a 45-minute
Speaker:drive from where I lived.
Speaker:We're going down to Laguna Beach and it's
Speaker:like 5 o'clock in the afternoon. There's
Speaker:nobody on the beach.
Speaker:Nobody because it's cold.
Speaker:Nobody goes. I'm sitting out my towel and
Speaker:my back is to the ocean. I turn around
Speaker:and there are four naked
Speaker:boys going into the ocean.
Speaker:I'm like, "Oh my gosh. They don't know
Speaker:we're not in the Netherlands anymore. You
Speaker:cannot just go naked in the ocean."
Speaker:I didn't have the heart to say anything
Speaker:at that moment because there's nobody on
Speaker:the beach, so nobody saw anything.
Speaker:When they come back, they say, "You can't
Speaker:do that. You're in America here. You've
Speaker:got to have a swimsuit."
Speaker:They say, "We don't have swimsuits." They
Speaker:say, "Guess where we're going tomorrow.
Speaker:We're going to go buy some swimsuits."
Speaker:We went to go buy some swimsuits. Then we
Speaker:go to Malibu. On a Sunday afternoon, we
Speaker:go to Malibu and the beach is packed.
Speaker:100% packed with people.
Speaker:I wasn't in my 20s. I wasn't graphic
Speaker:enough and how to explain
Speaker:how this works in America.
Speaker:We go there and they have their
Speaker:swimsuits. I'm getting ready to go to the
Speaker:changing room to change,
Speaker:but not these four boys.
Speaker:Right there on the beach, off come their
Speaker:clothes. Parents are running and leaping
Speaker:to cover the eyes of their children
Speaker:because they've got these four
Speaker:20-something naked men on the beach.
Speaker:They're putting on their swimsuits. The
Speaker:ranger comes over to me and he says,
Speaker:"What's going on here?" I
Speaker:said, "Oh, I am so sorry."
Speaker:I said, "I'm embarrassed." These are my
Speaker:friends from the Netherlands. They don't
Speaker:understand. They were naked at the beach
Speaker:yesterday. They didn't
Speaker:realize they couldn't be.
Speaker:We got swimsuits, but I didn't explain to
Speaker:them they had a change in the changing
Speaker:area, not on the beach.
Speaker:He's laughing at me thinking, "Oh my God,
Speaker:you've got your hands full." It's the
Speaker:cultural differences. You just don't
Speaker:think of what they don't
Speaker:know to explain to them.
Speaker:Swimsuit, you've got to put a swimsuit.
Speaker:They did. They put a swimsuit on, but
Speaker:they didn't realize that they couldn't
Speaker:just change on the beach.
Speaker:They were wondering why all the people
Speaker:were running to cover the eyes of the
Speaker:children at the beach because Americans
Speaker:are very prudish when it comes to nudity.
Speaker:It's very funny.
Speaker:I explain that to my students here
Speaker:because I find it very important because
Speaker:I don't want them to go to the states or
Speaker:somewhere like that and get a fine or end
Speaker:up in jail because they're doing
Speaker:something that seems "normal" for them.
Speaker:When I teach a foreign language, I
Speaker:exclude "normal" from their vocabulary.
Speaker:I'm like, "normal" doesn't
Speaker:exist. There are differences.
Speaker:We talk about that all the time. There
Speaker:are different things that aren't allowed
Speaker:in the US that are allowed
Speaker:in France and vice versa.
Speaker:I teach them bad words so they know what
Speaker:they mean because I remember using bad
Speaker:words because I thought
Speaker:they meant something else.
Speaker:I had that conversation. My kids always
Speaker:want to know we can't teach them the bad
Speaker:words, but nowadays they can look them up
Speaker:really easily on the internet.
Speaker:I explained to them that the cuss words
Speaker:are like everyday words. There's no
Speaker:difference anymore. The
Speaker:kids use them so much.
Speaker:That's very different in other cultures.
Speaker:In Mexican culture, you start cussing.
Speaker:They're going to slap you on the side of
Speaker:the street. It's just not done.
Speaker:Swap nudity with language. We are really
Speaker:prudish about nudity in
Speaker:other countries. They're not.
Speaker:They don't associate nakedness with sex
Speaker:like we do. You can't be naked unless
Speaker:you're having sex in America. That's the
Speaker:only way they see it.
Speaker:They don't swear like they do. In
Speaker:Germany, you can sunbathe in a public
Speaker:park naked. It's not a big deal.
Speaker:In America, you can't do those kinds of
Speaker:things and you can get
Speaker:yourself into lots of trouble.
Speaker:It's very different. When you talked
Speaker:about that aspect of culture, that was
Speaker:what I always think of. I want to teach
Speaker:my kids what they can do to not embarrass
Speaker:themselves in another culture.
Speaker:In Colombia, they also point with their
Speaker:lips instead of with their fingers.
Speaker:I don't want them to think that someone's
Speaker:having some kind of seizure or something
Speaker:or making fun of them because what are
Speaker:they doing with their face?
Speaker:I want them to understand those types of
Speaker:things when it comes to culture.
Speaker:I know we're over our time. I just want
Speaker:to cock one little thing
Speaker:and then we'll wrap it up.
Speaker:You also talked about the memorization of
Speaker:the irregular verbs. I remember I had
Speaker:this East German
Speaker:German teacher in college.
Speaker:He used to teach with a meter
Speaker:stick, a wooden meter stick.
Speaker:He would say whenever he used a
Speaker:preposition, like the German, you have
Speaker:the data prepositions, the accusative
Speaker:prepositions, and then the ones that are
Speaker:both data and
Speaker:accusative, you go back and forth.
Speaker:Every time we used one, we were supposed
Speaker:to recite them as fast as we
Speaker:could in alphabetical order.
Speaker:If we used an accusative preposition,
Speaker:he'd go, "Okay, list
Speaker:them now, all of them."
Speaker:If he didn't do it enough fast, he'd
Speaker:smack that meter stick and go,
Speaker:"Schneller, schneller, schneller."
Speaker:It just reminded me of
Speaker:very East German type thing.
Speaker:Just because I could memorize them in
Speaker:alphabetical order and know that they're
Speaker:the accusers doesn't mean I can use them
Speaker:in a sentence properly.
Speaker:I always tell it, "That surface, it's
Speaker:stuck to my hair on the top of my head."
Speaker:But we want the language to sink into the
Speaker:brain so that it's subconsciously you use
Speaker:the right thing that
Speaker:comes out of your mouth.
Speaker:Just memorizing it sticks it right up to
Speaker:the top of your head, but it's not
Speaker:getting beyond that skull into the brain
Speaker:where it comes
Speaker:instinctively out of your mouth.
Speaker:Listing the irregular verbs, who cares if
Speaker:they can list the irregular verbs?
Speaker:Or that they know that
Speaker:they're irregular in the past tense?
Speaker:My kids don't even know what an irregular
Speaker:verb is. I just teach verbs.
Speaker:I'll start teaching the simple past very
Speaker:early on because if I sprinkle it out
Speaker:throughout my lessons, they'll get it,
Speaker:quote unquote, again, very quickly.
Speaker:They'll start using it slowly once
Speaker:they've heard it enough times.
Speaker:Prepositional verbs the same way. In
Speaker:France, we don't have
Speaker:prepositional verbs.
Speaker:I'll teach English prepositional verbs
Speaker:very quickly so that they start
Speaker:understanding what they are.
Speaker:Then they'll automatically say, "I don't
Speaker:know why, but I think I need to add this
Speaker:preposition to this verb."
Speaker:They'll start understanding and acquiring
Speaker:it and being able to
Speaker:use it almost naturally.
Speaker:Whereas if I would stick to a textbook
Speaker:and I'm like, "Okay, for this chapter,
Speaker:we're working on prepositional verbs," I
Speaker:want them to acquire it
Speaker:by the end of the chapter.
Speaker:They won't be able to
Speaker:acquire it the same way.
Speaker:Whereas if I'm sprinkling it out
Speaker:throughout the class and I'm using the
Speaker:most, the prepositional verbs or the
Speaker:simple past verbs that we use the most.
Speaker:Like would like is a conditional. I would
Speaker:like. We use it every
Speaker:single day. Would you like?
Speaker:I teach it to them right away. Most
Speaker:textbooks will wait until they've had at
Speaker:least two years of English to teach it.
Speaker:And I don't do that.
Speaker:And you've given me that. That's two
Speaker:things to talk about there. The would
Speaker:like is funny that you said that because
Speaker:I tell people when I'm teaching them how
Speaker:to teach with CI that we don't teach the
Speaker:verbs and the conjugations.
Speaker:And we don't explain that we start with
Speaker:the infinite. We drop the endings off and
Speaker:we add these endings back on because
Speaker:that's artificial and known French or
Speaker:native language learner has
Speaker:ever learned to do it that way.
Speaker:And they go, but that's but it works. I'm
Speaker:like, it doesn't. Your kids don't know
Speaker:it. Give me. I go, there is one one word
Speaker:that they don't teach that way in every
Speaker:textbook in French, German and Spanish.
Speaker:I know for a fact they do not teach this
Speaker:verb that way. And they're like, I go,
Speaker:it's a common verb. It's taught in level
Speaker:one. It's usually in the food chapter.
Speaker:What word is it? And they're like,
Speaker:they're thinking. I go, oh my gosh. In
Speaker:French, it's in Spanish. It's and in
Speaker:German, it's in Spanish.
Speaker:It's the past subjunctive, which not even
Speaker:taught till end of level three, beginning
Speaker:of level four, but they just taught the
Speaker:word and what it means. And guess what?
Speaker:No kid uses it wrong. They can say, he
Speaker:said, or Jeff, which is the conditional.
Speaker:So you've got the different. You're
Speaker:teaching complex, but you're just
Speaker:teaching the word. And that helps so much
Speaker:with doing that. And then you talk about
Speaker:the prepositional verbs.
Speaker:I always tell kids the last hurdle for
Speaker:fluency is learning the prepositions.
Speaker:It's the hardest part of any language I
Speaker:truly feel unless they have particles
Speaker:like German has particles in the word
Speaker:like that they have. They're feeling
Speaker:words, but they have no translation. But
Speaker:prepositions because what makes
Speaker:prepositions hard is because they all
Speaker:have a direct translation.
Speaker:You know, day in Spanish means of or from
Speaker:they all have direct translations, but
Speaker:the direct translations are not how
Speaker:they're used in Spanish. We get married
Speaker:with someone not married to someone in
Speaker:Spanish. We fall in love of someone, not
Speaker:all of with someone. And you'll even hear
Speaker:it in America when the kit when people
Speaker:are speaking English, they'll go. Oh,
Speaker:yes, I fell in love of her.
Speaker:And it sounds weird to you. Understood
Speaker:what they said, but it sounds weird
Speaker:because, you know, we don't use that
Speaker:preposition in that way. And so I always
Speaker:find that prepositions are the final
Speaker:hurdle hurdle to fluency when you've
Speaker:mastered the prepositions, then you
Speaker:really sound like more like a native than
Speaker:any other thing that you could master.
Speaker:Yeah, but if you've heard it several
Speaker:years throughout the curriculum, instead
Speaker:of keeping it just for the last year,
Speaker:then it will be
Speaker:extremely natural, actually.
Speaker:True. I use subjunctive in my level one
Speaker:classes. I'll alternate for like instead
Speaker:of just using the commands. I want that
Speaker:you open your books right now because it
Speaker:causes the subjunctive. So they're not in
Speaker:a shock in level three when all of a
Speaker:sudden they hear a verb form.
Speaker:And I've never heard before like, where
Speaker:has it been all my life? And in Spanish
Speaker:and French, the subjunctive is very
Speaker:common. You can't speak without using it.
Speaker:It's used every single day. And so to
Speaker:insert in there doesn't mean I'm
Speaker:assessing for it, but I'm exposing them
Speaker:to it, expose to them early assess later.
Speaker:It makes it a lot easier for them to
Speaker:acquire. So do you have any final words
Speaker:that you have for us today that you'd
Speaker:like to impart upon our audience?
Speaker:Well, the fact is to really listen to
Speaker:your students and connect
Speaker:with them first in power mount.
Speaker:Yeah. Yeah, I would say we covered a lot
Speaker:of topics today with the backdrop of
Speaker:being pacing, but everything that we've
Speaker:talked about is getting them to that end
Speaker:goal of being competent, not necessarily
Speaker:fluent, but competent and
Speaker:confident in the language.
Speaker:And if anything we can take away from
Speaker:today is that we have to go by the
Speaker:students that are in front of us rather
Speaker:than by the calendar or the chapters in
Speaker:the book, because there is a big
Speaker:difference between covering curriculum
Speaker:and actually teaching for acquisition.
Speaker:And that's what we want to do. We want
Speaker:our kids to acquire the language so it
Speaker:sticks them long time, long term. So
Speaker:we're not having to review and they can
Speaker:actually use the language in the real
Speaker:world in real life, which is the biggest.
Speaker:How, no matter how good your textbook
Speaker:might be, I think that's the biggest
Speaker:failure of most textbooks. They are not
Speaker:able to teach how to live
Speaker:in the language themselves.
Speaker:And I always tell them the best thing to
Speaker:do is to go on an exchange program. You
Speaker:learn the language relatively quickly and
Speaker:outside of that, to be in an immersive
Speaker:classroom, one that the language is being
Speaker:used consistently and
Speaker:constantly, then you can do it too.
Speaker:But it's a much slower process in the
Speaker:classroom because you're only getting an
Speaker:hour a day versus, you know, 24 hours a
Speaker:day in another country. So thank you so
Speaker:much for joining us.
Speaker:We'll talk to you after we're done here.
Speaker:So stick with us. But let's go ahead and
Speaker:give our little wrap up. So I do want to
Speaker:give a huge thank you to Tamara for
Speaker:joining us today, for bringing us wisdom
Speaker:and clarity and serious.
Speaker:I've actually lived this energy to pacing
Speaker:conversation. And if today's episode
Speaker:reminded you that slow isn't lazy,
Speaker:repetition isn't failure, and enough
Speaker:looks differently depending on the kids
Speaker:in front of you, mission accomplished.
Speaker:And if you enjoy this conversation, do us
Speaker:a favor, subscribe, leave a review and
Speaker:share this episode with another teacher
Speaker:who currently stress
Speaker:staring at their pacing guide.
Speaker:You can watch us live on YouTube or catch
Speaker:the replay on your favorite podcast app.
Speaker:And as always ditch the drills, trust the
Speaker:process, and I'll see you next time on
Speaker:Comprehend This. Goodbye, everybody.
Speaker:Goodbye.
Speaker:[MUSIC]
