Episode 28

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Published on:

26th Apr 2026

Episode 28: "Input-Based Assessment That Doesn’t Make You Want to Cry"

Input-based assessment for CI teachers — in this episode of Comprehend THIS!, we dig into why traditional grading systems clash with comprehension-based instruction and what to do about it.

If your assessment routine is eating your weekends and still not telling you what your students actually know, this conversation will give you a clearer path forward.

Pamela Parks spent years as a professional translator for film and TV before landing in the world language classroom — which turns out to be excellent preparation for spotting when the wrong tools are being applied to complex human communication. Lynne Hendrick brings 22 years of public school German teaching to the table, plus a track record of making CI work in contexts most teachers don't even try — including special education. Together, these two have a lot of practical things to say about assessment that actually serves acquisition instead of just documenting it.

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  • JJ Morgan - https://senorajotajota.com

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Transcript
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Hello everybody and

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welcome to episode number 28.

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How's everybody doing this morning?

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You ever get to the end of a grading

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session and realize you have

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no idea what you're actually

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measuring anymore?

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You're circling things, you're writing

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comments, you're

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calculating percentages, and somewhere

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in the back of your mind, you know none

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of it is really about

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whether your students can

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understand the language.

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It's just assessment shaped paperwork

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that your school expects to exist.

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That's not a you problem, that's a

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systems problem, and it's

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exactly what we're getting

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into in this episode of Comprehend This.

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Pamela Parks has spent years as a

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professional translator for

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film and TV, which means she's

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had a front row seat to what happens when

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the wrong tools get

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applied to complex human

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communication.

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Now she's in a world language classroom

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and she has opinions

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about assessment, the good

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kind.

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And joining her is Lynn Hendrick, a

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German teacher out of

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Southeast Virginia with over

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22 years in public school classrooms,

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someone who's been making

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space for CI not just in

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her own room, but in

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special education too.

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If you ever tried that, you know it takes

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a particular kind of

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patience and determination.

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Together we're talking about input based

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assessment and what

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actually reflects what

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CI students can do.

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Fast, fair, and not

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something that ruins your Sunday.

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This is input assessment that doesn't

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make you want to cry.

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The title pretty much covers it.

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We'll be right back

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after these short messages.

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Pop quiz.

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Are your assessments aligned with what

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you're actually teaching?

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No?

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Cool.

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Let's fix that.

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The Assessment Academy is 10 pre-recorded

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lessons that help you ditch the scantrons

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and actually assess what matters, like

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proficiency, performance,

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and whether your students are

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still breathing by Friday.

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Watch on your time as many times as you

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want for a whole year and

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know there's not a single

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lesson about bubble sheets

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or grading 72 essays at 11 PM.

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You're welcome.

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Head over to mm.us slash academy and

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start assessing like

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you actually mean it.

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Welcome to Comprehend This, Real Talk for

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Real Language Teachers.

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No drills, no dry theory, just honest

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stories, practical ideas,

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and a reminder you're not

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alone in the CI trenches.

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Let's dive in.

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Good morning and welcome this morning.

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Welcome back, Pamela.

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And welcome back, Lynn.

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It's been a while, but you've been on

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before as well, so we're

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glad to have both of you

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this morning.

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How are we doing today?

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Doing great.

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Lynn, I'm trying to remember what

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conference I met you at.

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Was it practical and comprehensible?

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Might have been, yeah.

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You were amazing.

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Yeah, been a good time.

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Yeah, I'm doing well this morning too.

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So yes, we've got Lynn who represents

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German with us today.

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It's always great to get somebody from a

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different perspective than Spanish.

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And Pamela, as we know, does the French,

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the Spanish, and the Japanese.

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So we've got lots of

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different experience here.

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Many of us have been in the

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teaching world for decades.

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Scary to say at this point, but yes.

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I know, I'm so old.

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I don't have the gray hair yet, but I

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don't have much hair left at all.

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And my kids don't forget one of the

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quickest words we learned two

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weeks ago, we had descriptions

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in level one, "kallibol," "bald."

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We're practicing the words, we're playing

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a game, and I'm like,

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"What's the word for

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bald?"

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"Kallibol."

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Wait, there was no hesitation there.

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No thinking time.

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They're like, "No, we know that one."

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My kids, and they love

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to let me know it too.

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They're like, when I make things, they

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go, "Oh, you need a haircut."

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He goes, "Well, do you remember the days

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when you had haircuts?"

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I'm like, "Oh, thanks."

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Dad, are you still at middle school?

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No, I moved up to high

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school two years ago.

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I went back.

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He moved, okay.

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Well, when my husband and I were helping

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out with middle school

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at our church, one of the

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boys looked at my husband and said, "You

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don't have a forehead.

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You've got a six head."

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Oh, yeah.

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He spelled up his hands.

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Yeah.

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In middle school, they started that, and

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I didn't understand what they said.

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"You have a five head and a six head."

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I'm like, "Oh, what?"

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I didn't get it, right?

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I didn't get it because four is not

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spelled the same as the

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number four, so my mind did

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not go there.

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But then it took me maybe about six

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months for I found ...

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Oh, now I know what you're

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talking about.

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Oh, come on.

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Many linguists love puns.

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I didn't ... That is one I didn't get.

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That is one I did not

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get for the longest time.

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I didn't get four or five, and so my

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always default is ...

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See at six, seven?

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Oh, God.

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Don't start with that one.

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What's my default like?

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The Urban Dictionary is my friend.

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It's blocked at school, but I go on my

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phone and I'll look up

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things because I'm like,

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"I don't know what they just said."

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Or they'll give me a name of something,

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like they would name

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something, and I'm like, "Is

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that an appropriate name or is that not

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an appropriate name

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because I don't know?"

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Because I remember they go, "Sigma."

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They want to name everything sigma.

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Sigma, that would ... Yeah.

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I didn't know what that meant.

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I'm like, "Is that a bad thing?"

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I can't ... Sometimes I pull a kid I

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could trust off to the side.

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What's that mean?

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Is that a bad word?

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They'll tell me, but

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sometimes they won't tell you.

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Urban Dictionary is your friend,

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urbandictionary.com.

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There are things that are interesting to

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know, and there are some

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things that you never wanted

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to know in your life that are on there.

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My old school, our librarian had access

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to Urban Dictionary,

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and if you had a question,

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you would ask her and

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she would look it up.

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I remember there was one

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that I can't even repeat.

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It is not appropriate for anything, even

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rated R. It's not

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appropriate, but the kids were

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using it.

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I'm like, "Oh my ... Where

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did they even learn that?"

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Right.

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Right.

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I think this has been a real problem,

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because as a linguist,

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I'm always trying to teach

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the kids how to use

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language appropriately.

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In the past, I want to say two or three

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years, suddenly they are potty mouths.

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They're not swearing at me, but they are

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using swear words when

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they are talking to me.

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I'm like, "Look, I've got to teach you

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English now, because this is not

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appropriate language."

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Then they come in, they're like, "Teach

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me how to swear in Spanish.

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Teach me how to swear in French."

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Japanese is easy.

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You just use the politeness improperly

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and you're swearing.

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I'm like, "Guys, I need to teach you how

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to speak properly

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before I can teach you any

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slang words, because if you go to Japan

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and you use the wrong

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level of politeness, they

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are mad at you.

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Their stomach clenches up.

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They're like, "Whoa, you

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don't know how to talk."

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If you go to France and you start

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insulting people, the

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waiters are not going to wait

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on you.

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The store employees are not

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going to sell you anything.

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You have to learn to be polite, kids.

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It's so percolated into the language.

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What I find is so funny.

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I explained to them that the swearing

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culture and the nude

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culture are opposite, where in

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America, nude is absolutely a no-no and

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swearing is like everyday

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words, but you go to Mexico

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or some other place like that in

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Spanish-speaking world,

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swearing is the no-no and nudity is

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not as big of an issue.

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Most of the swear words in Spanish go

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back to the Bible, so

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that's why they are 100 times

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worse than the English equivalents.

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Nobody knows how to

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insult better than the Germans.

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There's innocent words.

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Do they call you a schwein or they call

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you a hoot, like a pig or a dog?

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But if they call you a

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pig dog, that's really bad.

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They're really good at that.

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But I find it so funny.

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They'll use Google Translate for

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everything, but they

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won't look up swear words.

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I'm not going to tell you to Google them,

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but you Google everything else.

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Why wouldn't you Google that as well?

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Well, the problem with French is if they

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Google Translate French,

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it's going to accidentally

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be like, "Oh, you just

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propositioned me, kiddo.

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I'm going to take you down to the vice

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principal if you say that again."

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Because Google Translate doesn't

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understand the nuance of

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language that there's all these

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innuendos that a

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robot doesn't understand.

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Yeah.

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But it's funny.

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Yes, they are.

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And I found going back to high school, I

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have found that the cuss

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words are exponentially

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worse than they used to be before.

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Because I did 11 years in high school,

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then I did 11 years in

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middle school, and now I'm

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back for 11, for years 12

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and 13 in the high school.

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And I'm telling you how many times I say

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language in a day, in a class period.

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I need to have one of those little, like

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back in the sitcom days,

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we used to go laugh track.

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The laugh button would be up

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there so people would laugh.

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I need to have that so

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I just click a button.

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Because I'm getting tired of singing it.

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You can find code in the app.

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It's so ingrained into their movies and

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their games and their movies and music.

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It's ingrained into everything.

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And then I think sadly, if you actually

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listen to how some of

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these parents talk to their

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kids, it's ingrained in their everyday

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conversation at home.

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So, yeah, you have to

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learn how to code switch.

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And they're like, what?

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Code switching is not good.

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I'm like, no, code switching is what we

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do when we want to have a job.

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When we don't want to get tired.

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Because we're working at Chick-fil-A and

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we accidentally cuss

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somebody out because we

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didn't even know we were using the words.

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Code switching is what we

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do if we want to keep a job.

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I always find it funny.

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I had a teacher I worked with in Las

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Vegas and she always

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had a potty mouth and then

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the first couple weeks of

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school, we had a reminder.

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It's school time.

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You got to put your school voice on

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instead of your summer language.

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And she's like, I got to get back in the

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habit of doing that.

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We'd be out talking in the hall and she'd

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be like, F this, S this.

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We're like, no, no, no, no.

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Kids, kids, kids over here.

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Kids over here.

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I just find it much better not to use

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those words in the

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first place so I don't have

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to filter myself.

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Yeah.

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I'm like, do you use

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those words at church?

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Yeah.

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I'm like, oh my gosh.

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Oh my gosh.

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I see kids at the churches, you know,

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wearing shorts and tank

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tops and I'm like flip flops

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and I'm like, oh no, we weren't even

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allowed to wear jeans.

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My parents would have killed us.

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You know, you dress up to go to church,

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you know, so they

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don't even know, understand

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the word Sunday best.

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No.

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Oh, true.

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True.

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They have no idea what that is.

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No idea.

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Well, today's topic is assessment, which

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is one of my babies is

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if you, anybody knows

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me well, you know, the assessment is my

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big thing because, and

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I'll just give you a little

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background before we get started.

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This is what I had.

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I got hired as an emergency permit in

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2001 and I had this girl named Brittany.

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I still have her senior picture on my

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wall and on the back of

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her senior picture, she

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wrote thank you for passing me.

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Cause she knew she shouldn't have passed

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either because that

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first year I didn't know what

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I was doing.

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I was in an emergency permit.

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I never even went to teacher school yet.

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So I did what every teacher does and

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steals every other

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policy from another teacher.

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So I had my rules like

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no hats in the classroom.

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I don't know why I put that on there

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because I don't care if

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they wear a hat in a classroom.

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I'm just glad that

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they're in the classroom.

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But I put that as a rule because someone

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else had it as a rule.

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Right.

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I also copied the grading policy.

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So you know, you have X amount for

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homework, X amount for

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quizzes, X amount for tests,

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X amount for projects, X amount for

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participation, you know, the

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standard traditional grading

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system.

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Well, that's how Brittany passed because

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she always did her

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homework and she always made

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really pretty projects.

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So that bumped her up.

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But her language was never there.

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It was level two and she could, I don't

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know how she got to

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level two, to be honest.

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She couldn't write or speak any Spanish

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whatsoever and she ended

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up with a C. So she actually

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passed but she shouldn't have because

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when you look at her

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quizzes and her tests, none

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of them were passing.

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So I vowed that that will never happen

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again in my classroom.

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And the big thing, and I hear other

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people now talking about

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this, and I was talking

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about it over 20 years ago, I wanted

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their ability to match

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the grade in the gradebook.

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So if they were proficient, they had to

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be at least 80% in my gradebook.

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And if they were advanced, they had to be

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at least 90% in my gradebook.

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And if they were approaching proficiency,

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that was the 70% area.

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So I needed to do that.

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And that second year, all

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my kids were guinea pigs.

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Now they always voted the

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way I wanted them to vote.

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I kind of manipulated them.

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So it was always their decision.

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So I never got in trouble like them

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complained to their parents

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about how the grades changed

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every quarter because the way I graded

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changed every quarter

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because I would propose to them

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after I did an experiment.

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I go, this is what's going on.

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This is what I'm seeing.

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And this is what I, what is it,

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alternatively, I think might be better.

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Let's vote as a class.

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And the way I presented it was they were

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going to vote the way I

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wanted to change it to no

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matter what.

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And they always did.

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And it worked.

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But I changed it every

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quarter until I found what worked.

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I found what worked.

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And I tweaked it over the

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years to what I use now.

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And it works.

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And it's consistent.

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And so that's why I wanted to do this

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episode to talk about

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some of those things because

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a lot of us are still

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in that traditional.

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I know my current school has a grading

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system that's very traditional.

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I've had to work the numbers to get it to

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where I'm by the, not

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by the letter of law,

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but by the intent, I am fulfilling their

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percentages that they want.

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But I am making it more so I can, because

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my grade book is much more like a map.

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It tells you where my kids are strong and

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where they're weak so

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that I know what areas

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to help them with.

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And the way they set the

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grade book, that is not happening.

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You cannot tell because they've got like,

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I think it's like 40% is classwork.

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And I'm like 40% and then 15% is no, we

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upped it to 20% is the final exam.

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So 60% right there.

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And then the left, what's left over is

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your quizzes, your

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tests and your projects.

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And I'm like, that's not giving me any

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information that I need to know.

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So I kind of manipulated it.

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So technically, yes,

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that's how mine works.

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But I break up my classwork into

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speaking, reading, writing

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and listening and give that

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percentages based off of those.

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So that's the kind of stuff that I do.

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And everybody knows me also.

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I use gamification as participation.

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So they don't earn any grades with that

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they are earning privileges

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and prizes in my classroom

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to get that done.

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So let's start with Lynn.

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What do you think about grading?

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And what's the first feeling that comes

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up for you right now

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when you think about it?

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So Scott, when you and I first got to

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know each other, you

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helped me a lot to develop

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my grading system into something that was

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based on actual progress.

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And I broke things down in my grade book

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by reading, writing,

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speaking, listening and

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culture.

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And I was having such great conversations

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with my kids and parents.

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I could walk into a meeting with a parent

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and say, this is

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where your kid is strong.

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This is where he's not.

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And then my school district took away all

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independence that we had in how our grade

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book was set up.

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And so currently I have three grading

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categories, assessments and

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projects, 40% of each quarter,

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quizzes and labs, or what I would

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consider a lab in a language room is 30%.

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And then practice is 30%.

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And then at the end of the course, I take

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my four quarter

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grades and we did away with

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final exams.

Speaker:

We're now doing culminating assessments

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and we have to have one every quarter.

Speaker:

And I cheat here because I

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try to pair them together.

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So they're doing a reading assessment and

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a listening assessment together.

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And then I break it apart into two

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culminating assessment grades.

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And then they're doing a writing

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assessment and a

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speaking assessment together.

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And then I can break it

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apart into two assessment grades.

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But this new system that we're under, I

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can't tweak anything.

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It has to go in the book like that.

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And so this is actually an area that I'm

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struggling to find

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meaningful ways to grade

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them because I'm back to saying, well,

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their quiz grades are low.

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They don't do well on tests.

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But unless I save every test and every

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quiz and break them apart

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as I'm going into a meeting,

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I give them any more

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information than that.

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This is being made at a district level

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because my district

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has seven high schools.

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I think there's somewhere between 15 and

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20 middle schools and in

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upwards of 50 elementary

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schools.

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So it's a large

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district and they won't listen.

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They won't talk.

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And then the best part, this is the best

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part in order to pass my course.

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This district also made this little

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spreadsheet called the grade calculator.

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So out of the five grades that I

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accumulate over the course

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of a course to figure out

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their final grade, they have to pass two.

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Two.

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And they can pass my course with a D.

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And as long as they pass the course with

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a D, they get to go to the next level.

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And I cannot say you

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really should repeat this class.

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And this is the problem right off the bat

Speaker:

because they're

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already, if they're coming

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with a D, they're already at a 40 percent

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deficit and it puts them way behind going

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in the next class.

Speaker:

And a couple of things that you talked

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about, I understand why

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districts want to do that

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to make it there.

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This is where you have to do what you do

Speaker:

to keep your job, but

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advocate for your students

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and say that it doesn't work.

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Think about you can't grade band the same

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way you grade English,

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the same way you grade

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PE.

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We're different things.

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And I understand from a district

Speaker:

standpoint that it makes it

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easier, but easy isn't always

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right.

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And the same problem here, that was my

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big problem also with

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the way it's broken down

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that you had to go back to every quiz and

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find out which

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questions they got right versus

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which ones they got wrong to be able to

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take it from actionable.

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Because if you break up your grade book

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into quizzes and

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projects and assessments and all

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those things, then all you can say is my

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kids are good or bad at taking quizzes.

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And the answer to fix that is to give

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them more quizzes and assessments.

Speaker:

They practice that habit.

Speaker:

But that's not our goal.

Speaker:

Our goal is not to do that.

Speaker:

They need to be standards because there's

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no standard about a quiz.

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There's no standard about

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an assessment or a project.

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So they need to be

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aligned by the standards.

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So the standards from

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English are not the same as math.

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So the grade book should not

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be set up the exact same way.

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And I also have a problem with some of

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the standards because

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some people go and take

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that too literal and then they make their

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grade book into

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presentational, interpersonal,

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and inter...

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I can't say the word.

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Interpretive.

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Interpretive.

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I could not get that word out.

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But here's the problem with...

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And those aren't even standards anyway.

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Yeah.

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Those aren't...

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Those are modes of communication.

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So what I want...

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That doesn't tell me because, okay,

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they're not good at interpersonal.

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What part of

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interpersonal are they not good at?

Speaker:

Is it the comprehension part

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or is it the production part?

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So for me, I still take out my listening,

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reading, speaking, and writing.

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I don't do culture anymore explicitly.

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I build it into the other things.

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But then I have in my speaking, I have

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presentational and I have

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interpersonal speaking stuff in

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there.

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So I break it up into those four skills,

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but I'm using the

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different modes to assess.

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So I'm making sure that there's equal

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number of presentational

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opportunities and equal

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number of interpersonal, but I'm taking

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that interpersonal and breaking it up.

Speaker:

Are they writing and listening or are

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they writing and reading?

Speaker:

And so those go into two different grades

Speaker:

so that I can look at my grade book.

Speaker:

And this is the biggest

Speaker:

problem of using traditional.

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And this is where I go to my

Speaker:

principal's at and I advocate.

Speaker:

I want to be able to

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look at my grade book.

Speaker:

And more importantly, I want my students

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to be able to go and

Speaker:

look at the grade book,

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know their strengths

Speaker:

and their weaknesses.

Speaker:

And it changes the

Speaker:

discussion that we have.

Speaker:

Because instead of saying, I've got a C

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profé, what do I need to do to get a B?

Speaker:

They come to me and go

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profé, I am weak in speaking.

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What do I need to do

Speaker:

to practice that skill?

Speaker:

That's what they need to know.

Speaker:

And so it changes the whole conversation.

Speaker:

Like Lynn said, it was a more meaningful

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conversation when you had

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a built in different way.

Speaker:

And the really crazy part is that I can't

Speaker:

even figure out how to

Speaker:

do that because we're

Speaker:

using Canvas as our LMS, which talks

Speaker:

directly with Synergy,

Speaker:

our grade book of record.

Speaker:

And so they have to match.

Speaker:

The categories in Canvas have to match

Speaker:

the categories in Synergy.

Speaker:

Or I am creating a mess of

Speaker:

stuff that I have to fix.

Speaker:

And I'm teaching three

Speaker:

different preps every semester.

Speaker:

And I have 90 minutes of planning time

Speaker:

and that's it and a life.

Speaker:

So yeah, it's like you're in this catch

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22 that you either fix

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by spending a whole lot

Speaker:

of time or you just are

Speaker:

like, well, this is what it is.

Speaker:

Because yeah, my kids are like, oh gosh,

Speaker:

they don't even worry

Speaker:

about what area they're

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weak in.

Speaker:

They're just like, wow,

Speaker:

I have too many zeros.

Speaker:

I guess I got to make some of those up.

Speaker:

And I'm like, yeah, you think?

Speaker:

I'm having

Speaker:

conversations about missing work.

Speaker:

And I miss the days.

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That's all it is this year.

Speaker:

Yeah, I miss the days of that

Speaker:

conversation about actual real learning.

Speaker:

And it's so hard to

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reconcile that in my head.

Speaker:

And so I guess the one way that I've

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really focused on trying

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to do my best to work within

Speaker:

the system, doing things that I know are

Speaker:

important is by how I

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assess and things like that.

Speaker:

And I mean, the best part is, you know,

Speaker:

in 90 days, I have to

Speaker:

complete a course because

Speaker:

we're on the semester system, which means

Speaker:

every four and a half

Speaker:

weeks I'm grading, giving

Speaker:

a quarter grade.

Speaker:

And in four and a half weeks of classes,

Speaker:

I'm supposed to have two

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assessments, two quizzes,

Speaker:

practice items, a minimum of

Speaker:

10 grades in the grade book.

Speaker:

And I'm supposed to have completed one of

Speaker:

those days, community

Speaker:

culminating assessments

Speaker:

that adds up to the

Speaker:

final exam equivalent.

Speaker:

Well, if I do those culminating

Speaker:

assessments outside of

Speaker:

class, most of them won't do it

Speaker:

because they don't do homework.

Speaker:

But those who do do it cheat.

Speaker:

So then you have to do

Speaker:

them in class, right?

Speaker:

And it takes doesn't take a day, it takes

Speaker:

days, because I've got

Speaker:

kids who work at such

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various levels.

Speaker:

And I don't know about you guys, but

Speaker:

these students currently,

Speaker:

what used to take my students

Speaker:

20 minutes takes them

Speaker:

40 minutes to an hour.

Speaker:

It takes them 20 minutes

Speaker:

just to actually get started.

Speaker:

And it doesn't make them a timer board or

Speaker:

what if they make them stop at the end.

Speaker:

They're just like little sloths.

Speaker:

It's crazy.

Speaker:

It's focused.

Speaker:

Yeah, I'm really focused on

Speaker:

what I do and how I do it.

Speaker:

Like by combining two of the CAs last

Speaker:

semester in my German one class at the

Speaker:

end of the semester,

Speaker:

I gave them little biographies of people

Speaker:

because some very nice

Speaker:

German teacher made all these

Speaker:

little short, perfect for level one

Speaker:

biographies about famous

Speaker:

Germans, famous Americans, famous

Speaker:

sports figures.

Speaker:

And I was like, this is awesome.

Speaker:

So stage one of this culminating

Speaker:

assessment was, here's

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your two, you're going to read

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them.

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And you're going to show me your

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comprehension by creating

Speaker:

like a mind map about each person

Speaker:

showing me what you learned about them

Speaker:

and what you understood.

Speaker:

And I told them it could be in German or

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English, whichever they wanted to use.

Speaker:

But it had to be clear that they knew

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what the information was.

Speaker:

And then step two of the process was in

Speaker:

small groups, they

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interviewed each other.

Speaker:

And I gave them a little chart, right

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where they could fill

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in the person's name.

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And then they had vital information they

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needed to collect about each person.

Speaker:

So now I had them speaking and I had them

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record that in their

Speaker:

small groups onto Canvas

Speaker:

so I could just go to

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one place and grade it.

Speaker:

And then stage three was choose one of

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those new people you

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learned about and now write

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me a short biography

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like the ones you read.

Speaker:

And so to complete that, they really did

Speaker:

have to use German and

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they really did have to

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understand what they read and understand

Speaker:

what they heard and

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then be able to communicate

Speaker:

back to me what they learned.

Speaker:

And there was purpose to it, which I

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think I've been trying to

Speaker:

incorporate more purposeful

Speaker:

communication.

Speaker:

So I've resorted to really trying to be

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very conscious of how I

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assess and what I'm doing

Speaker:

to assess to try and account for the lack

Speaker:

of professional

Speaker:

courtesy I'm being given in

Speaker:

how I grade.

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Speaker:

And that's a really good example of how

Speaker:

to do really

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input-based assessment in a real

Speaker:

way that has real impact

Speaker:

and shows growth over time.

Speaker:

So that was a really excellent example.

Speaker:

So thank you for sharing that.

Speaker:

Pamela, what are your thoughts?

Speaker:

So first of all, let me say how much I

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love being here because

Speaker:

like everything you guys

Speaker:

are saying, it's like, "Oh, finally, I'm

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with my people who

Speaker:

understand everything I'm thinking."

Speaker:

Like, you know, I was making notes while

Speaker:

Lynn was talking and

Speaker:

then Scott was chiming in.

Speaker:

I'm like, "Yeah,

Speaker:

that's what I just said."

Speaker:

Yeah, totally.

Speaker:

So first of all, I want to say, Scott,

Speaker:

good for you for being

Speaker:

flexible, your first year,

Speaker:

second year teaching, not

Speaker:

being afraid to make mistakes.

Speaker:

That's part of the learning curve.

Speaker:

I think so many times we're so afraid,

Speaker:

"Oh, no, we have to be

Speaker:

the experts and the students

Speaker:

can't see us not

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knowing what we're doing."

Speaker:

We have to be able to

Speaker:

say, "Well, that didn't work.

Speaker:

We're going to pivot now

Speaker:

and do something else."

Speaker:

That's so good for you for

Speaker:

trying out different things.

Speaker:

And Lynn, I mean, my gosh, you are trying

Speaker:

out so many different

Speaker:

things right now and

Speaker:

I eat it when the hammer comes down.

Speaker:

And Scott, you're 100

Speaker:

million percent correct.

Speaker:

Math class is not the same as history

Speaker:

class, is not the same

Speaker:

as music class, is not the

Speaker:

same as art class.

Speaker:

We should not have to

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assess the same way.

Speaker:

The students are

Speaker:

learning in a different way.

Speaker:

We in language, we

Speaker:

are a progressive skill.

Speaker:

We have to have some kind of homework.

Speaker:

We need to have the students looking at

Speaker:

something outside of class.

Speaker:

It's not like, "Oh, guys, today we're

Speaker:

going to get in a

Speaker:

Socratic seminar and discuss."

Speaker:

You come to a consensus on

Speaker:

what you think this means.

Speaker:

No, I'm sorry.

Speaker:

There needs to be a little bit of

Speaker:

memorization here and we're fighting

Speaker:

Ebbinghaus' forgetting

Speaker:

curve.

Speaker:

So, yeah, let me cross that off.

Speaker:

You hit that point perfectly.

Speaker:

Your culminating assessment

Speaker:

sounds really fascinating.

Speaker:

We had an episode last week where we were

Speaker:

talking about project-based learning.

Speaker:

For me, my assessments are I'm walking

Speaker:

around the class and

Speaker:

listening to the students apply

Speaker:

everything for a project.

Speaker:

So migrating for that is much easier

Speaker:

because of just the

Speaker:

way I chose to assess.

Speaker:

The pass with a D, wow,

Speaker:

that's really got in our crawling.

Speaker:

Because we used to have

Speaker:

it in our school catalog.

Speaker:

You need a C or higher to

Speaker:

progress to the next level.

Speaker:

We did too.

Speaker:

New principal came in and took that out.

Speaker:

I feel like I'm really good with

Speaker:

differentiating because I often get

Speaker:

students second year French

Speaker:

too, they transfer from another school

Speaker:

and they only know how

Speaker:

to fill in the blank and

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so they don't know how to

Speaker:

have an actual conversation.

Speaker:

Or maybe I'll get a heritage

Speaker:

speaker in my Spanish class.

Speaker:

A Spanish one, I only

Speaker:

ever teach Spanish one.

Speaker:

I feel like I'm pretty good at

Speaker:

differentiating but my

Speaker:

colleagues are like, oh my gosh, I

Speaker:

have this student who can only say, el

Speaker:

perro comé and that's all they can say.

Speaker:

This is Spanish three that they're in now

Speaker:

and so they're kind of

Speaker:

panicking about that.

Speaker:

That's really difficult because then the

Speaker:

other thing is the

Speaker:

previous principal we had, for

Speaker:

six months I argued with her because she

Speaker:

kept wanting me to

Speaker:

write out the standards and

Speaker:

I wrote it out and I gave it to her and

Speaker:

she's like, no, these

Speaker:

aren't the standards and I

Speaker:

wrote it out again and

Speaker:

did it a different way.

Speaker:

And I'm like, well, we

Speaker:

don't really have standards.

Speaker:

I kept hammering this in.

Speaker:

We have descriptors.

Speaker:

This is what the student can do with the

Speaker:

amount of language that they have.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

Novice low, they know

Speaker:

some isolated words.

Speaker:

Intermediate mid,

Speaker:

finally they're conjugating.

Speaker:

And I kept trying to explain that to her

Speaker:

and she's like, no, no,

Speaker:

these aren't standards.

Speaker:

And then after six months I looked at her

Speaker:

and I'm like, are you

Speaker:

asking for a scope and

Speaker:

sequence?

Speaker:

And she's like, no, no, no standards.

Speaker:

I'm like, no, you are

Speaker:

describing to me a scope and sequence.

Speaker:

So we've been arguing because she didn't

Speaker:

understand the

Speaker:

terminology and the difference

Speaker:

between standards

Speaker:

descriptors and scope and sequence.

Speaker:

So Lynn, I feel your pain.

Speaker:

I know this is so frustrating to have,

Speaker:

like Scott knows,

Speaker:

because I've been complaining

Speaker:

about this for like several weeks now, we

Speaker:

have to do common formative assessments.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

And like, first of all, if you're doing

Speaker:

common formative

Speaker:

assessments, if everyone's doing

Speaker:

the same assessment on the same day at

Speaker:

the same time, it's no

Speaker:

longer a formative assessment.

Speaker:

Formative assessments need to be on the

Speaker:

fly so that you can tell

Speaker:

where your students are

Speaker:

at that moment.

Speaker:

Now I have two Spanish one classes.

Speaker:

They are not on the same level.

Speaker:

The class dynamics and you were, you were

Speaker:

complaining about having 24 students in a

Speaker:

class, 35, 39 students per class.

Speaker:

These two Spanish one classes are not on

Speaker:

the same level for me to

Speaker:

give them the same formative

Speaker:

assessment on the same

Speaker:

day at the same time.

Speaker:

When I already know where they're

Speaker:

struggling because I give formative

Speaker:

assessments or language

Speaker:

teachers, we are constantly

Speaker:

formatively assessing, right?

Speaker:

Every 10 minutes.

Speaker:

So the, we're having a lot of pain with

Speaker:

the district right now

Speaker:

because they're like, you

Speaker:

need to have your common formative

Speaker:

assessments and then sit

Speaker:

down and compare the data.

Speaker:

We do that all the time.

Speaker:

Okay.

Speaker:

But it's not the common formative

Speaker:

assessment we're comparing.

Speaker:

So we're just using blue kit and saying,

Speaker:

Hey, look, my students had 75% on this.

Speaker:

Um, you're, what your students get.

Speaker:

Okay, great.

Speaker:

Yeah, we know what we're doing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We're supposed to have

Speaker:

common assessments too.

Speaker:

And I'm like, common assessments.

Speaker:

I'm the only one

Speaker:

teaching this in my high school.

Speaker:

Who am I comparing it to?

Speaker:

I'm so thankful.

Speaker:

I'm the only French teacher.

Speaker:

I'm the only Japanese teacher.

Speaker:

I can do whatever the heck I want, but

Speaker:

I'm one of four Spanish teachers.

Speaker:

And so I'm sorry, it's

Speaker:

the first week of school.

Speaker:

I have to teach weather expressions this

Speaker:

week and everybody in

Speaker:

case you decide to change

Speaker:

your schedule and go to the other

Speaker:

colleague, you have to know

Speaker:

the same things that you're

Speaker:

going to go there.

Speaker:

And I'm like, but I want to make it

Speaker:

relevant to the students.

Speaker:

I want to put in the stuff

Speaker:

that they want to talk about.

Speaker:

They're not going to hear

Speaker:

that from my colleagues.

Speaker:

And so, yeah, it's been a real headache.

Speaker:

And I was going to say

Speaker:

something back to Lynn.

Speaker:

I know it's not the perfect scenario and

Speaker:

I know it's extra work,

Speaker:

but in your situation,

Speaker:

what I would do, I would have the

Speaker:

district facing grade book

Speaker:

compliant, but I would keep

Speaker:

a separate grade book that

Speaker:

gave me the data that I wanted.

Speaker:

And then I would go to my principal and

Speaker:

show them the difference

Speaker:

and the amount of information.

Speaker:

Again, do what you have to do to keep

Speaker:

your job, keep the

Speaker:

district one, but I need to

Speaker:

advocate for my students and show why

Speaker:

this is a better way and

Speaker:

what information because

Speaker:

what they really want us to do cannot be

Speaker:

done from a traditional

Speaker:

grade book, at least in

Speaker:

a language class.

Speaker:

Maybe it works in English, maybe it works

Speaker:

in math or science,

Speaker:

but it doesn't work in

Speaker:

a language class because we

Speaker:

are less like math or English.

Speaker:

We are more like dance and band and PE,

Speaker:

which I never understood

Speaker:

that till I was halfway

Speaker:

through teaching.

Speaker:

And I'm like, yeah, we aren't really an

Speaker:

academic course where you

Speaker:

are sitting there and you're

Speaker:

memorizing facts and

Speaker:

regurgitating those facts.

Speaker:

You're memorizing things and you're

Speaker:

practicing skills that you can

Speaker:

demonstrate that you have

Speaker:

a proficiency in those skills, not unlike

Speaker:

dance or music or sports.

Speaker:

It's very similar in that way.

Speaker:

And I would show them an advocate.

Speaker:

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker:

Because it's not saying, it's not always

Speaker:

saying, can they do this

Speaker:

and just checking it off

Speaker:

yes or no.

Speaker:

It's how well can they do this?

Speaker:

Exactly.

Speaker:

And so it's a lot different.

Speaker:

That's a lot of work.

Speaker:

I mean, that would be great, Scott.

Speaker:

That's a ton of work for you, Lynn, if

Speaker:

you choose to go that route.

Speaker:

So I like to game the system.

Speaker:

So for example, we are using Synergy too.

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And I really like Synergy because we were

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using a horrible thing

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last year and the year

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like we've been through so many grade

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books now that are really horrible.

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The problem with Synergy is the district

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locked it so we can't give extra credit.

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Now this is one of the ways that I

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differentiate is the students who are

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going for extra credit,

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they're not competing

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with the other students.

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They're not ruining the

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other students' grades.

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They're competing with themselves.

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And so my high flyers, if they

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have 101%, I'm fine with that.

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But because I can't give extra credit, I

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have to figure out, OK, I

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can give one point extra

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and Synergy is OK with that.

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If I put in the assignment as five

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points, I can up to double the thing.

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So I'm figuring out all these sneaky ways

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that I can give my extra credit.

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And I'm still supporting the students who

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are struggling, who

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need the scaffolding and

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everything.

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But I'm rewarding the

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students who are the high flyers.

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And so we'll keep brainstorming.

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We'll come up with some clever way for me to get what we need.

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I was going to say, the other thing you

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could do in Synergy is

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actually just put in a new

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assignment and exempt the kids from it

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that it doesn't affect.

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Right.

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The kids who have earned.

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Yeah, right.

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Mm hmm.

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So I do that.

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You use the comment field at all.

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I use the comment field some, but not a

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lot because Canvas talks

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with Synergy in our district.

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And so to go in and put comments in, I

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have to go through so many steps.

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I put comments in Canvas.

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And the interesting thing

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is, no, they don't copy over.

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But I do give them feedback from Canvas.

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Yeah, the interesting thing is that

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because their parents

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reference Synergy, the students

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very rarely pay attention to the grades

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in Canvas and they

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only really pay attention

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to Synergy.

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And I'm like, but y'all, this is not like

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Synergy only updates every so often.

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Your actual current grades and what I

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have graded is in Canvas.

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And if you're missing something and you

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look at it in Canvas, it's a

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live link to the assignment.

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And then you can do it.

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But if you're in Synergy, now

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you have to go back to Canvas.

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You have to locate where it is.

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You have to find the assignment.

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You have to then complete the assignment.

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And then you have to wait for me to grade

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it and for it to

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transfer over to Synergy.

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I'm like, if you just start in Canvas,

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that's the most common thing to look.

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That defeats the

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purpose of an LMS, right?

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If they're going to the student

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management system and not the LMS.

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Oh, wow.

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It's crazy.

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It's crazy.

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But yeah, so I'm finding like you are

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finding ways to kind of game the system.

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I'm finding ways to do it.

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It just it's, you know, it's.

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And I think there's a lot of teachers

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that feel very defeated

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by the grading system in

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place by like most of the teachers in my

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department feel extremely

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defeated by the grading system

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that we have.

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And so they just don't they don't even

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try because it's too

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much work and it's too much

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time.

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And and I was going to say, I think the

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other problem with, you

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know, this the whole idea

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of standards and proficiency and all of

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that is there are still

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so many teachers who are

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relying on that old system of gain a

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skill, check it off, teach

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about the language versus

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teaching for

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proficiency and for acquisition.

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And it's so hard when you're in a system

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where most of the

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teachers are teaching about the

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language.

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Absolutely.

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Well, it's not the way we

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learned in our teacher programs.

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You know, we in our teacher programs, it

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was here are your

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choices, audio, lingual grammar

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translation,

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communicative language learning.

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We never ever talked about gradebook.

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Never.

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And and Scott, you talk about coming in

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as an emergency sub for a year.

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That's how I fell into teaching.

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I was a professional translator.

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The Japanese teacher quit and I have been

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her substitute and she

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made me stand outside

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the classroom while she threw everything

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away because she did

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not want to share anything

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with me.

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Don't know why.

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And so I was inventing things on the fly,

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learning how to teach as I was, you know,

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I don't know a gradebook.

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And I you know, I had a participation

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grade too, because that's

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what all the the Spanish

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colleagues had participation grade.

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And that's where I ran into problems,

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because after a year, I realized, oh, I'm

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sorry, participation

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in my classroom has to be a given.

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If you're not participating, you can't do

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anything in my classroom.

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For me to put that

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grade in the gradebook.

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That's ridiculous, because you should be

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like you should come in

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and sit down in class.

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That's a given.

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You need to be physically present.

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That's a given.

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Participation is part of

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that physical presence, right?

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And if they're participating, it's going

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to show up elsewhere,

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because if they're not

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participating, it's going to show up in

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their assessments and other things.

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So it's not something that way.

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Yeah.

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Like if you're grading handwriting,

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you're not grading them

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on whether they can make

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a loop or not.

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You know, you're great.

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It's whether they can make a loop or not

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is going to be whether

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they can actually hand

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write.

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It's the little pieces

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instead of the whole thing.

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The idea is can they hand write?

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So you don't have to measure all the

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little things, because if

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they can hand write, obviously

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they can do all the little pieces that

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are required to hand write.

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Yep.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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And I think the other thing that happens

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when you're constrained

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into such a narrow grading

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system, like I have completely changed

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what I grade and how I

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grade it and what category

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I put it in.

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You know, when we were practicing

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writing, a lot of times I

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would never even grade it

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or we become a practice grade, right?

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Because that's what we were doing.

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But like I can't possibly, especially in

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lower level classes,

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teach enough material

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to do two assessments, two quizzes and a

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culminating assessment

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in four and a half weeks.

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No.

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Like you just can't teach enough.

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I always tell the kids.

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To make that valid assessment.

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I always tell the kids and the parents

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that like the first three

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weeks of school, especially

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in level one, I will not have any grades

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in there because I

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have nothing to assess.

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If I assess them too early,

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they're going to be bad grades.

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And if I do it in level two or three, I'm

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not assessing what

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they learned this time.

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I'm assessing what they

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remember from last year.

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So I said, you wait three or four weeks

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at the beginning of

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the year or beginning of

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a semester.

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If you teach off a semester system, then

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they're not going to have

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grades right away because

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if I were to actually grade, the grades

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are going to be lower

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and you're going to have

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a heart attack.

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So because they haven't had enough time

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to build the skill

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that I'm trying to assess

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yet.

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Yeah.

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Uh huh.

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And I don't have that option.

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If I end a four and a half week period

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with no grades in the

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grade book, then I get a

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conversation with the principal, right?

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Because I've got to have

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a grade for that quarter.

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And so, you know, things that had been

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practiced, if they're

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harder, they become quizzes.

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Right.

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It's like it's kind of the only fair way

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that I can figure out

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how to grade these kids and

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not get myself, you know, in a situation

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where my contract is

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becoming negotiable, you know,

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and how about things that

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were quizzes become assessments?

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You know, it's the only

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way I can figure it out.

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How about let me let me just because I'm

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thinking about how I

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would probably try to game the

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system.

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Um, if you focus on the

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descriptor levels, all right.

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So instead of saying culminating

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assessment one, what if

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you just called it novice low

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or novice mid, wherever you expect your

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students to be, and then you

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have them produce a writing

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or speak to you or, you know, whatever it

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is you would normally do.

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And then you say, OK,

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they're at the words stage.

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So they got they know some words.

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The words aren't connected.

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Novice mid.

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Oh, they're at the, you

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know, they're connecting.

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There's a word,

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there's a noun and a verb.

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The verb isn't conjugated.

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The verbs in the wrong tense, whatever.

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But there's a noun and the verb goes with

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the noun and the student

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just kind of communicate

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that.

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Oh, the novice high, your culminating

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thing is going to be

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at novice high, guys.

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So make sure that you can say a subject

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and a verb and a

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direct object or subject and

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a verb and an adverb or subject and a

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verb in a preposition of location.

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So maybe just just that.

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And then your district will say, oh,

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you've got a culminating

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assessment, but actually

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you know exactly where your students are

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in the proficiency

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levels and the descriptors.

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And maybe I think

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that's the way I would do it.

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Yeah.

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And I think I think I've kind of

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designed, especially in my

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level one class, I've kind

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of designed the culminating assessments

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so they almost progress that way.

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Like in my level one class, the first

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culminating assessment

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is a station rotation.

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And so one of the rotations is with me.

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Can you listen to the

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commands I'm giving you and do them?

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Right.

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That's perfect.

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Yeah.

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And then another station is, you know,

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here's some simple math problems.

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Can you match the math

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problem to the answer?

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Right.

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And the answer is

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written out in your form.

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So that's matching.

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And then another station is a short

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reading that uses the

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vocab that we've been working

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on.

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Can you read this and show me in one of

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these ways that you understand it?

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And then are students working

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independently or are

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they working in partners?

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So with that first one, we do it.

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I do it twice.

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And the first time they can work with

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their group that they're

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traveling with and they

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can talk and confer.

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And then the next day we do it for a

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grade and they are

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working silently on the run.

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Oh, I love it because they

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get they need that practice.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So that's kind of how I've solved that.

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And I'm like, okay, that's nice.

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Novice low four and a

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half weeks of German.

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We should be able to, you know, and then

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I can see the

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stratifying of the kids and their

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who's who can go a little bit beyond and

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who can who was

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struggling and those things.

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So I've kind of tried to see a CAs so

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that they can follow.

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I did not mean to.

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I think I'm lagging a bit.

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Do they work through the stations at

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their own pace or do you

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have a timer saying you

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have to be at the station for a minute

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and then the station for a minute?

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So just because there's that one there

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that they're working with

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me, I do put it to timer.

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But then I'm like, okay, so

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you didn't finish the reading.

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You're going to finish with me quicker.

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So work on your reading or, you know, if

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you didn't finish

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that, that math, you can go

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back and take a look at that when you're

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done with wherever you're at.

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Oh, the last one I have is a box of stuff

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that we've been using

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in class that we use

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a lot and they should know the names of

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and they have to take

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it out and tell me what's

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in the box.

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And so that's just making the list.

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I love the kinesthetics things.

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I mean, I think that's

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so important for the kids.

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Language is communication and I think I

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feel like you have to

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be applying it, you know?

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So just fill in the

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blank multiple choice.

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You're not going to

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learn a language that way.

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Right?

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Yeah.

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And you can see like if they're taking

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stuff out of a box and

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writing it down, you can

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see did they know the German or did they

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give me the English?

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You know?

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Yeah.

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It's very straightforward.

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Now, I remember you were, I was very

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impressed because I often

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help out in the special ed

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room on like the summertime.

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You have a class of

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special ed students, right?

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I do.

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How is, do you have to do, I was very

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impressed with

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everything you said for that.

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That's what I

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remember about you from this.

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It must have been practical and

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comprehensible that I saw you at.

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Yeah, I think so.

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Yeah.

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So are you doing that again this year?

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I am.

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Yeah.

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I didn't look through the list to see.

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I was so busy.

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I was like, okay, well,

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I'll see you there again.

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So are you, how do you

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adapt things for that class?

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So the beauty of that class is that every

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child who's in there

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is earning what Virginia

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calls an applied studies diploma.

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And it is a non-academic diploma.

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And they just decided to call it that

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instead of a diploma of attendance.

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And so when they come to

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me, it is 100% enrichment.

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And I don't, there's not an expectation

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that I get them to a certain level.

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There's not an expectation that every kid

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in the room is even

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going to be able to master

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things.

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And the phrase as developmentally

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appropriate, that phrase

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takes you to the atmosphere, up

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into the atmosphere with that group,

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because everybody's

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developmentally appropriate is

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different.

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And so a lot of what I do,

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like I still, God help us.

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My grade book still has to be set up the

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same and I still have

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to have it all has to

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be there.

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But if we're playing bingo to practice

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our numbers, I will use

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that as a practice grade

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or I will use that as a quiz grade or

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something like that.

Speaker:

If we have learned one of my favorite

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things that I do, depending on the

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semester I'm teaching

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is we learn about a

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holiday that's not a common one.

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And then they put together a display for

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the hallway to teach

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other kids about this holiday

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is not a real popular one or whatnot one

Speaker:

that a lot of people know.

Speaker:

And so that becomes their assessment, you

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know, and we're

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working together and I put

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my hands behind my back with every sheet

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of paper that's put up

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crooked or backwards or

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upside down because it's theirs, right?

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It's there.

Speaker:

I try to make sure the

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words are right side.

Speaker:

Like if we want people to read that guys,

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which way does it need to go?

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But it's still, you know,

Speaker:

asking them to show their skill.

Speaker:

Which way does that mean?

Speaker:

We want people to read it, but you know,

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pictures, whatever, those

Speaker:

can be wherever they want

Speaker:

them.

Speaker:

So with that class, it truly is at their

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level, on their pace.

Speaker:

You know, we are three quarters of the

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way through the semester

Speaker:

and the group I'm working

Speaker:

with now, we are still working on one to

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20 because two out of

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the four of them are still

Speaker:

having trouble with numeracy and, you

Speaker:

know, counting physical objects in

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English to associate

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it with the proper numbers.

Speaker:

So that's going to come slow in German

Speaker:

too, you know, so, but

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it's that course I love

Speaker:

because it is such pure

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learning for the sake of learning.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But you still have to pretend to have a

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culminating assessment

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for them and everything.

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Oh, yeah.

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Oh, yeah.

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And we do it together.

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It is a group effort in the class.

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Yeah, culminating.

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Okay.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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Yeah.

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If the group is high enough functioning,

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I put together a

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world tour book for them.

Speaker:

And they, I found an elementary package

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on teachers pay

Speaker:

teachers that has like a little

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info sheet on different countries.

Speaker:

And so we'll go back to the countries

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that we visited through

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celebrations and culture.

Speaker:

And we fill out the information sheet and

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that becomes their culminating assessment

Speaker:

and it becomes something that they can

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take home with them.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Yeah, it depends.

Speaker:

It all depends on the group and the

Speaker:

function, the function of

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the group and the dynamics

Speaker:

and yeah, but it's my favorite class

Speaker:

because it is such pure learning.

Speaker:

Awesome.

Speaker:

Love it.

Speaker:

That's what learning

Speaker:

should look like actually.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We are coming to the end.

Speaker:

I can't believe already we haven't even

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barely touched this topic.

Speaker:

But I want to give some

Speaker:

people some concrete things.

Speaker:

So what actually counts as input based

Speaker:

assessment for each of you?

Speaker:

And I'm going to give mine really simply

Speaker:

and then you guys can go.

Speaker:

Mine is if it doesn't measure what a

Speaker:

student can do in the

Speaker:

language, whether it be speaking,

Speaker:

writing, listening or

Speaker:

reading, it doesn't count for grade.

Speaker:

It may go in the grade book for tracking,

Speaker:

but it doesn't count for grade.

Speaker:

I've got to look at it.

Speaker:

Does this tell me how much the student

Speaker:

can speak at their level

Speaker:

and the target language

Speaker:

or not?

Speaker:

If it's not that, if that assessment,

Speaker:

number one, doesn't

Speaker:

demonstrate that, then it's not

Speaker:

a proper input based assessment for me.

Speaker:

If it doesn't tell me how well they can

Speaker:

do that skill that we're looking at.

Speaker:

And so if we do culture

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things, those are great.

Speaker:

I'm going to track those.

Speaker:

But if it doesn't result in something

Speaker:

where they talk about

Speaker:

the culture in the target

Speaker:

language or they write about the culture

Speaker:

in the target language or

Speaker:

I give them a new component

Speaker:

of that piece of culture that they've

Speaker:

never learned before in

Speaker:

the target language and

Speaker:

they have to understand it, then it's not

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going to go in the grade book that counts

Speaker:

for a grade because it's not

Speaker:

demonstrating a language skill.

Speaker:

It's demonstrating knowledge necessarily.

Speaker:

And that's not the actual

Speaker:

skill that I want to do.

Speaker:

So for me, that's my filter

Speaker:

that I filter everything through.

Speaker:

And I've got tons of webinars.

Speaker:

I've got my assessment course.

Speaker:

So if you want to know specific

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assessments that I do,

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those are the places to look at

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for mine.

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Now I'm going to let Pamela and Lynn take

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it away with that

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because they're going to

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give you different

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ideas than what I have.

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Pamela, you go first.

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Well, okay.

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Thank you.

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I think I'm lagging.

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I apologize if my video's been bad, but

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out in the Pacific

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Northwest, no internet.

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The one thing we didn't talk about,

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because we run out of

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time now, is how not to drown

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in the paperwork.

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So I'm going to finish by saying the

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easiest thing, focus on

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your one skill and just look

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at that.

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If you are doing verb conjugations, don't

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stress about the fact

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that your student used

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the wrong preposition.

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Just focus on the verb conjugations.

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So for my class of, let's say I've got 35

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students in the class, I had them write a

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quick write something.

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I'm just looking, did they get a

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subject-verb combination, the verb

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correctly matching the

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subject at least one time

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in this little quick write?

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I'm just going eyeballs, blank, blank,

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put it down, put it

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down, put it down, put it

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down, oh no, this one didn't, put it in

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that stack, put it down,

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put it down, oh this one

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didn't, put it in that stack.

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There, my grading's done.

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These guys all get full points.

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These guys I'm going to have to look at

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again and decide do they

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get one point off or two

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points off or whatever.

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But it takes me less

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than five minutes per class.

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So that's my, I think I'll end with that,

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that focus on what it

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is you want to assess

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and keep your eyes on the prize.

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Don't forget, don't get distracted by all

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the other shiny stuff,

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just focus on the one

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thing you want to assess.

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Yep, that's a really good one as well.

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And I would say that Scott drove that

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point home in the

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seminar course that I took with

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him and that is the mantra that runs

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through my mind too.

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Scott is what is this showing me about

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their ability to use the language?

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And I will add that Anne Marie Chase's

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quick quizzes for

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listening and reading are amazing

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and they really do show

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what the child can understand.

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There's three parts to them.

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The first part is words or phrases,

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translation, straight

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target language to English.

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The second part is a short

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summary that they do in English.

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So if they can tell you a short summary

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in English, you can

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really see how much of that

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reading they understood

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in the target language.

Speaker:

And the last section is details that they

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learned from the story.

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So not translating, if they just

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translate, I don't give

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them full credit because a lot

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of times the translation is not a detail,

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but a detail that they learned.

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And I tell my students, if you want to

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show me that you really

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understood it, then an

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assumption or an insinuation that you can

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make because of what you learned can be a

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detail because it shows

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me that you can go deeper.

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And I tell them what they show me on that

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form should be the

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most that they understood

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and should try and show me by the end of

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those details, a complete

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picture of what they read

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because that's what I'm looking for.

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And those are quick and

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easy to grade as well.

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And another activity that I picked up

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from JJ Morgan on her

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blog was cutting up the text.

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I was trying to think of the name,

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cutting up the text.

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You give them a text, they read it, they

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draw a picture of what

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they understood from the

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text. And then they literally have to cut the

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text up and put in

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pieces of that text onto their

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drawing that they created to prove to you

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that their drawing is correct.

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And again, it shows you the depth of what

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they can understand.

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And you really do have to emphasize that

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in your direction

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giving, that they need to show

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you their depth of understanding and not

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just do it fast because

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they'll just do it fast

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and it won't show you a whole lot.

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So both of those you can

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find on their websites.

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Anne-Marie Chase is,

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she's Signora Chase, right?

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Yep, Signora Chase.

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And then JJ Morgan is Signorita who?

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Signorita, gosh, if you just do JJ Morgan

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into a Google search,

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cutting up the text,

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it'll come up.

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But those are two of

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my favorite activities.

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That's a great idea.

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I love that.

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And I will say something I've been

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experimenting with is, and

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I'll put both those websites

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in the show notes for everybody, Signora

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Chase's and JJ Morgan's.

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But what I've been experimenting with,

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and I got this idea not

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from anybody, but from

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Chat GPT, I'm sorry, but it

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gave me some ideas of assessing.

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And I love it.

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It's the one sentence summary.

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So they do a listening, they write one

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sentence in English

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telling me they demonstrate, but

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then I add to it like the

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details you were talking about.

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You have to give me one detail from the

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beginning, one detail from

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the middle, and one detail

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from the end.

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So they're writing four sentences in

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English instead of answering questions.

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And I get a better comprehension because

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my colleagues always want to do

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open-ended questions.

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They take forever to grade.

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And there are so many nuances because you

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need a rubric to grade

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that now because they

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got kind of the answer, but they didn't

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really hit it on the

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head because it's not always

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simple quick and easy answers.

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And it takes a lot more time to assess,

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even if you put it in

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informative, where it will

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assess those.

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But they didn't capitalize

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yes, so it marks it wrong.

Speaker:

So you have to add that as an answer.

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They misspelled yes,

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and they spelled it yes.

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Y-A-S instead.

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And then you've got to

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mark that as a right answer.

Speaker:

So it takes so much more time.

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But it's really quick for me to look at

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whether they do it

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digitally and type it in a text

Speaker:

box or if they do it on a piece of paper.

Speaker:

For four sentences, it takes me less than

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four seconds to read

Speaker:

that, and I get an idea

Speaker:

really quickly on whether or not they

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understood what they read.

Speaker:

Because in real life, guess what?

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There ain't any

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multiple choice questions.

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Exactly.

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So what we always tell them is you have

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to understand the gist

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of the conversation enough

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to be able to continue that conversation.

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So if they're listening and they can

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summarize it in one

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sentence, and they don't have that

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skill in English, so you're actually

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teaching what a summary

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is because their summary is

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just rewriting what they heard.

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That's the way they figure is a summary.

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That's not what a summary is.

Speaker:

And then writing three details, then you

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know that they did it.

Speaker:

They might have gotten a summary, which

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means they got the big

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picture, but they're not

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getting the details.

Speaker:

So that may be a C type grade because

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they don't have those details in there.

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Getting all three details, that gets you

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that A. Getting one or

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two details is that B there.

Speaker:

But we really are

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shooting for that main idea.

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Are they getting that main idea?

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But that's the approaching because it's

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not enough because it

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could be you got a main

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idea that we're talking about an

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appointment that

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you're going to be making.

Speaker:

But if you didn't catch the detail of the

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time and the date, then the understanding

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is not really there.

Speaker:

So you're missing a key component.

Speaker:

So you're almost there.

Speaker:

You're in the right, at

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least you're in the right sport.

Speaker:

You're not expecting a baseball game and

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show up at a football stadium.

Speaker:

You know, you're in

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the right ballpark there.

Speaker:

So you give them that C there, but then

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they got to work on those details.

Speaker:

And then you can give them the feedback

Speaker:

that they need to know

Speaker:

that says, you've got the

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main idea.

Speaker:

You're in the right place.

Speaker:

But now you need to focus on the details

Speaker:

there, trying to get more information.

Speaker:

Well, you can say, give me one detail.

Speaker:

Can you now focus on getting on the next

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one, getting one detail.

Speaker:

And then when you've got that one detail,

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next time let's go for two details.

Speaker:

Even though I'm asking for three, you

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might not be able to

Speaker:

go from zero to three.

Speaker:

So just take those baby

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steps and go to the one.

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Well, Scott, if you're really hooked on

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questions and answers,

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why does the teacher have to

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write them?

Speaker:

Why can't the students write questions

Speaker:

and answers for the

Speaker:

reading or the listening based

Speaker:

on what they understood?

Speaker:

And again, if they can write good

Speaker:

questions with correct

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answers, they understand it,

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you know.

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Absolutely.

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And I've got to take my

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time writing those questions.

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Absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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That's a great idea.

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God, I would like to remind you that if

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you don't know who wrote

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it, but you went to chat

Speaker:

GPT, somebody wrote it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Chat GPT did not write it.

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No, I understood that.

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Yes.

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I used chat GPT last time to brainstorm,

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to brainstorm ideas.

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I want a different way to assess this.

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I've already assessed it this way.

Speaker:

I want something new.

Speaker:

I want something so it gives me some

Speaker:

ideas and I can go back

Speaker:

and you can go back and

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you can tell chat to

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you, where did you get this?

Speaker:

It will cite the information and you can

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go and get that information.

Speaker:

So, but I use it as a brainstorm.

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It is my teacher's assistant and it,

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that's how I use it.

Speaker:

But I brainstorm and I can't think of

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something or if I've got a

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kid who has got this, like

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I had a kid last semester in a class I

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don't teach, it's not a

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language class, but they

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put this class in me.

Speaker:

I had no idea what I was

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doing teaching this class.

Speaker:

And it was when they got college credit

Speaker:

for, so I had to follow

Speaker:

this, you know, very strictly

Speaker:

all this stuff.

Speaker:

But he had, I've never seen an IEP that

Speaker:

literally was six

Speaker:

pages of accommodations.

Speaker:

Just the accommodation

Speaker:

pages were six pages.

Speaker:

So I uploaded his, I took off his name

Speaker:

and covered that up, but I

Speaker:

uploaded the accommodations

Speaker:

part of it because

Speaker:

Chatcheby can read pictures.

Speaker:

So I put that in there and I said, this

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is what I have to teach.

Speaker:

Can you give me some ways that I can

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teach to this kid while still

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following the accommodations?

Speaker:

And it gave me some creative ways that I

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would never have

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thought of before because

Speaker:

I would have thought this, but then I go,

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oh, this one works for

Speaker:

this company, but violates

Speaker:

that accommodation.

Speaker:

And it was really complicated.

Speaker:

It was a really good kid.

Speaker:

I love the kid, but I did, I took the

Speaker:

names off, as I said, any

Speaker:

identifying, I took that

Speaker:

information, uploaded it

Speaker:

and it can read the pictures.

Speaker:

So I didn't have to copy

Speaker:

and paste and stuff like that.

Speaker:

I can just screenshot the

Speaker:

pictures, put them up there.

Speaker:

Bingo, wim bam, thank you, ma'am.

Speaker:

It is done.

Speaker:

And I got all that information.

Speaker:

And I'll tell you another way I use it,

Speaker:

because I'm taking, some

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of you heard from the last

Speaker:

couple of episodes, I'm taking a new

Speaker:

language called Maltese,

Speaker:

which is my heritage language.

Speaker:

And it's not always easy.

Speaker:

And I'm going through live tutors and

Speaker:

they'll have slides or

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something up on the screen.

Speaker:

And I'll take a screenshot of those

Speaker:

because I want to be in the

Speaker:

moment when I'm listening.

Speaker:

I don't want to be taking writing notes.

Speaker:

It's just like I tell my kids, I don't

Speaker:

want you writing notes while I'm talking.

Speaker:

So they can screenshot these.

Speaker:

And then I put these screenshots into

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chat GPT and I say chat GPT.

Speaker:

I need a list of all this vocabulary that

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we talked about, pull

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it from the stories,

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pull it from all these things, give it to

Speaker:

me in Maltese, next to

Speaker:

the Maltese in parentheses,

Speaker:

put the pronunciation using

Speaker:

English letters and sounds.

Speaker:

Even though I know the international

Speaker:

phonetic system that was

Speaker:

so long ago when I learned

Speaker:

it, I don't want to think that hard.

Speaker:

And then give me the English translation

Speaker:

and give it to me in

Speaker:

the Anki flashcard format.

Speaker:

Because Anki is a free flashcard program.

Speaker:

And then it gives me a text file.

Speaker:

And all I do is upload to Anki and I save

Speaker:

me all this time from

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typing all of that out

Speaker:

into vocab.

Speaker:

And I can have it, you know, week one,

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week two, week three and

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going through and studying

Speaker:

my vocabulary that way to

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help build my vocabulary.

Speaker:

And I start with the passive vocabulary,

Speaker:

learning it from Maltese to English.

Speaker:

And when I feel confident, then I flip it

Speaker:

and add it the other way.

Speaker:

And when I feel I've done

Speaker:

that way, then I mix it.

Speaker:

So some are English to Maltese and some

Speaker:

are Maltese to English.

Speaker:

But it gives you the practice and Anki

Speaker:

automatically does space

Speaker:

repetition based on your answers

Speaker:

and how fast you answer them.

Speaker:

So it works really, really well.

Speaker:

But that saved me

Speaker:

hours and hours and hours.

Speaker:

I have over a thousand

Speaker:

vocab words in there already.

Speaker:

And thinking about how long that would

Speaker:

have taken me either to

Speaker:

write it on an actual index

Speaker:

card or to type it out into Anki, you

Speaker:

know, word by word by

Speaker:

word, this saved me time.

Speaker:

So I use it as an assistant and it

Speaker:

really, really does help.

Speaker:

And for like your special needs kids,

Speaker:

Lynn, or any kid, really,

Speaker:

I will do the same thing

Speaker:

with my vocabulary in Spanish.

Speaker:

Similar, and I don't make

Speaker:

the flashcards for them.

Speaker:

But what I'll do is I'll put it in

Speaker:

notebook LM, which is a free Google app.

Speaker:

You get you hit limitations if you don't

Speaker:

have a paid Google account.

Speaker:

I have a paid one because

Speaker:

I pay for my Gmail account.

Speaker:

I pay for extra storage.

Speaker:

So it comes along for free.

Speaker:

I get more usage of it.

Speaker:

You put you copy and paste your vocab

Speaker:

list and tell it to

Speaker:

make a cartoon infographic

Speaker:

using all of the vocabulary.

Speaker:

And they show me those last time.

Speaker:

They give you one page with all the

Speaker:

vocabulary along with a

Speaker:

graphical element that helps

Speaker:

it in there.

Speaker:

So it helps everybody.

Speaker:

You got your visual, your textual, all

Speaker:

those things are right there.

Speaker:

And it's a one sheet.

Speaker:

And I can't publish these legally, but in

Speaker:

my classroom, I will

Speaker:

do them in themes like

Speaker:

South Park, Batman, Spiderman.

Speaker:

So I'll go, okay, you need

Speaker:

your Spiderman sheet today.

Speaker:

Get your Spiderman sheet out.

Speaker:

And then they know which one to find

Speaker:

instead of me saying, let's

Speaker:

go to unit four vocabulary

Speaker:

A and B. They're not going to find that.

Speaker:

If I go, go to your Spiderman, go to your

Speaker:

Felix the cat, go to your Tom and Jerry.

Speaker:

I love Felix the cat.

Speaker:

I remember that from the seventies.

Speaker:

Students remember, do they know Felix?

Speaker:

No, they learned it from my graphic.

Speaker:

And then they look it up.

Speaker:

The kids who are like cartoonists, they

Speaker:

like to look that stuff

Speaker:

up or underdog, Ollie,

Speaker:

Bullwinkle.

Speaker:

So I make all these ones.

Speaker:

So I can't publish them because it's

Speaker:

copyrighted, but I can use it for my

Speaker:

classroom and it helps

Speaker:

them to understand.

Speaker:

So you know, Family Guy and South Park

Speaker:

are really big for my kids.

Speaker:

So they're going to pay more attention to

Speaker:

the stuff, especially

Speaker:

when I do like the family

Speaker:

tree using Family Guy,

Speaker:

you know, shows all that.

Speaker:

So you can do that and it's free and it's

Speaker:

really a great thing

Speaker:

for them to be able to

Speaker:

do.

Speaker:

And I make that for every vocabulary.

Speaker:

So those are the things I kind of use the

Speaker:

AI for because it

Speaker:

really helps my kids learning

Speaker:

and comprehension and understanding.

Speaker:

And they have something back to refer to.

Speaker:

And that part of the IP that says you

Speaker:

need to give them a copy of the notes.

Speaker:

I don't really do notes, but guess what?

Speaker:

This is the notes.

Speaker:

This is it.

Speaker:

I mean, I have my kids write the

Speaker:

vocabulary down because there is

Speaker:

something about actually

Speaker:

writing the letters down.

Speaker:

And writing.

Speaker:

So I do that and I don't give them the

Speaker:

colored sheet till

Speaker:

after they wrote those down.

Speaker:

But I also make these infographics about

Speaker:

a grammatical aspect.

Speaker:

So it helps them to to understand about

Speaker:

gender or that because I

Speaker:

don't really talk about

Speaker:

that in class, you know, but we have to

Speaker:

learn in the textbook.

Speaker:

So I go I look at all the grammar points

Speaker:

for the chapter I've got

Speaker:

to teach and I make these

Speaker:

little infographics and

Speaker:

I also make a slide deck.

Speaker:

It'll make a nice up

Speaker:

to 15 slide slide deck.

Speaker:

And I'll use that to kind of explain it

Speaker:

to kids and then give

Speaker:

them the summary in an

Speaker:

infographic.

Speaker:

And I state it together for the chapter.

Speaker:

They have everything that they need.

Speaker:

Bingo and everything is perfect for them.

Speaker:

So those are the ways I help to use to

Speaker:

supplement what you're talking about.

Speaker:

I don't use it to teach my kids, but I

Speaker:

give it information

Speaker:

because it would take me hours

Speaker:

or lots of money to pay someone to make a

Speaker:

infographic and draw it out by hand.

Speaker:

So it's a way that I can use to help my

Speaker:

kids in differentia and

Speaker:

scaffold and support, especially

Speaker:

my special needs students.

Speaker:

So it is a really great, great thing.

Speaker:

But we have gone way over.

Speaker:

We are at 915 this morning,

Speaker:

at least on the Pacific Coast.

Speaker:

So I hope everybody

Speaker:

learned a lot about assessments.

Speaker:

And if you want to know more, you can

Speaker:

look all of us up and

Speaker:

check out what we have to

Speaker:

offer.

Speaker:

Any last words before we say goodbye?

Speaker:

Just so enjoyable being

Speaker:

here, connecting with people.

Speaker:

You've been great, Pamela.

Speaker:

She's been with us straight

Speaker:

for like six or seven weeks.

Speaker:

I can't remember.

Speaker:

Most of season three has been with Pamela

Speaker:

and I love her to death.

Speaker:

She's got such great...

Speaker:

Because I'm having a bowl.

Speaker:

She has such great insights.

Speaker:

Well, I would say to anybody who watches

Speaker:

these, if you think it

Speaker:

would be fun to be on one,

Speaker:

just reach out to Scott because we all

Speaker:

have things that we're good at.

Speaker:

And teacher voices need to be stronger

Speaker:

voices in our PDs, in

Speaker:

our curriculum development

Speaker:

and everything.

Speaker:

Absolutely. Teacher voices need to be there.

Speaker:

And that's what I like here about not

Speaker:

having superstars that

Speaker:

everybody knows, like Maestro...

Speaker:

Even though I'm inviting Maestro Loca, if

Speaker:

she wants to come on, she's welcome to or

Speaker:

any other one.

Speaker:

But to have everyday teachers is

Speaker:

important because we all

Speaker:

have something to share.

Speaker:

We all do something that is worthy for

Speaker:

other people to know about.

Speaker:

And we don't necessarily think that

Speaker:

because we're in our

Speaker:

little classrooms with our doors

Speaker:

shut, but I think it's

Speaker:

really important to share ideas.

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I have gotten tons of ideas.

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I've gotten ideas from Lynn.

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I've gotten ideas from Pamela.

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I write them down.

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The sink or swim game that Pamela talked

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about, I'd never heard of it before.

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And my kids are loving that game.

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And they're now

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strategizing and figuring it out.

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And we were doing it

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during testing last week.

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That's a fun show.

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Yeah.

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They were doing it

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during testing last week.

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And the teacher next door,

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she's like, "I'm not used...

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She's not used to me being loud because

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I'm not used to being

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right next door to her.

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And I'm not used to having to worry about

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people being next door

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because where I'm at."

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And she called me, she

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goes, "I'm next door."

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I'm like, "Oh, got it.

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Sorry."

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Because we're being too loud because they

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were getting excited about that.

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They're like sinking so and so.

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I'm saving so and so.

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It was just a fun little game

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and I never had heard of it.

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I'm always looking for other

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games to practice with them.

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And that was a really fun one.

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They liked that one.

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They liked the unfair game.

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But I never would have heard about that

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one except for Pamela.

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And then she talked about apples and...

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Is it apples and oranges?

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Apples to apples?

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I love that.

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Oh, apples to apples.

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Yep.

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So I haven't integrated that one yet, but

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that's another one in

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there that we talked

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about in a previous episode.

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So if you want to go

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back and check those out.

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But we're always

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learning from each other.

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And no matter whether you're new as a

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teacher or you've been

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doing it for a while, we all

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have experiences and things that we do in

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our classrooms that

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can help each other out.

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And we need to share more.

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Not like that Japanese teacher that

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Pamela had to cover, take

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over for who shut the door

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so she could hide and burn everything

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else that she had created.

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So she could share.

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And I've worked with

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teachers like that too.

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I said, don't share this.

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You can't have that.

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That's mine.

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I made it.

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It's mine.

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And I'm glad that we have moved more to a

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more sharing society

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with teachers because

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we have such things.

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So thank you, Lynn,

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for pointing that out.

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And yes, we're always looking.

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We've got two more episodes this season

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and then we're going to

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take a couple of weeks

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break and then we'll be starting.

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I can't believe already season four will

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be starting pretty soon

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because we just started

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this podcast in July.

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So it's almost been a year and we'll take

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a couple of weeks off

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when our next two weeks,

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I think our last one is May 10th.

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And then after that, we'll take a couple

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of weeks off, probably

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the rest of May off and

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we'll come back in June.

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So if you're interested, you can always

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go and put the link up

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here before we say our

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final goodbyes and US podcast.

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And when I have the new season ready,

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it'll be updated on there as well.

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So it's mm.us podcast for those who are

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listening and it's on the screen for

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those who are watching

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to sign up.

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And as the new season comes out, I put

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the topics out in

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advance so you can kind of see

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what's going on.

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We record on Sundays at 8 a.m.

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Pacific 11 a.m.

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Eastern.

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And with that, I want to thank my

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wonderful teachers today

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who joined me because that

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is a wrap on episode 28.

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And if you're walking away with even one

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thing you can try on

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Monday, tomorrow, then Pamela

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and Lynn did their jobs and so did you

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for sticking around.

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Pamela, thank you for bringing the

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translator brain to the

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assessment conversation.

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I love that she knows all of the science

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behind the learning.

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She quotes these theories and these

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practices and such and I

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have not heard of them before,

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but I'm grateful to learn that out.

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It turns out the skill required to decode

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meeting across

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languages for film and TV are

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not totally unrelated to figuring out

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what student actually understands.

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Who knew?

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And Lynn, thank you for 22 years of

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wisdom delivered without

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any of the pretension that

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sometimes comes with 22 years of wisdom.

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And I love hearing from lesser taught

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languages because

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German is the love of mine.

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It's my first.

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Well, it's my second language I learned,

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but it's the one I

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actually graduated from college

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with.

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So it's one I always have

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hoped to be able to teach.

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But on the West Coast,

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it is extremely rare.

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And also, if anyone is listening, has a

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good rom com recommendation.

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She is accepting submissions.

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If this episode was useful, do us a

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favor, subscribe, leave

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a review and send this to

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one teacher who's currently drowning in a

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stack of papers they

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don't want to look at.

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They'll thank you later.

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Catch us live every Sunday on YouTube or

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find us wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Ditch the drills, trust the process and

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I'll see you next

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time on Comprehend This.

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Bye bye everybody.

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About the Podcast

Comprehend THIS!
Real talk for real language teachers—because comprehension isn't optional.
Welcome to Comprehend THIS!, the podcast for language teachers who are tired of the same old textbook chatter and want the real talk instead.

Every episode is like pulling up a chair in the copy room or leaning on the hallway wall at your favorite conference — except it’s not awkward, the coffee’s better (yours, not mine), and nobody’s grading you.

Host Scott Benedict sits down with 1–2 guests — teachers, trainers, authors, CI rebels — to swap stories about what actually works in a comprehension-based classroom.

We talk the good, the weird, the messy middle — first wins, facepalms, reading that actually sticks, grammar without drills, surviving department side-eyes, grading for real proficiency (without losing your mind), and everything in between.

It’s casual. It’s honest. It’s LIVE — so you get all the “did they just say that?” moments, unfiltered.

Pull up your favorite mug. Laugh, nod along, steal an idea or two for Monday, and remember: you’re not the only one doing it different — and doing it better.

Watch LIVE: Sunday mornings at 8am Pacific / 11am Eastern, on YouTube at youtube.com/@immediateimmersion — or listen soon after on your favorite podcast app.

Comprehend THIS! — Real talk for real teachers. Ditch the drills. Trust the process. Stay human.

About your host

Profile picture for Scott Benedict

Scott Benedict

Scott Benedict has been teaching Spanish since 2001—which means he’s survived more textbook adoptions, curriculum rewrites, and “revolutionary” teaching fads than he cares to count. He runs Immediate Immersion and hosts the Comprehend THIS! Podcast, where he tells the truth about teaching with comprehensible input: the good, the bad, and the “did that student just say tengo queso again?”

After two decades in the classroom, Scott knows what actually works (spoiler: not conjugation charts) and isn’t afraid to say it out loud. On the podcast, he dives into CI strategies, teacher survival hacks, and the occasional story that will make you question your career choices—but in a good way.

When he’s not recording or coaching teachers, you’ll find him traveling, taking photos, or wandering yet another zoo because apparently, one giraffe enclosure is never enough.

Comprehend THIS! is equal parts professional growth and comic relief—because let’s be honest, if we don’t laugh about teaching, we’ll cry.